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Could SWR extend their Poole service to Hamworthy?

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miklcct

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The section of Blandford Road between Hamworthy and Lower Hamworthy is closed for about 3 weeks for major utilities work, cutting off the motor access between Hamworthy and Poole with six miles diversion via Upton, which will cause major disruption to the traffic. During road closure, people at Hamworthy has to walk or cycle to town centre in order to avoid a diversion. Morebus has set up a temporary timetable, splitting the original circular route into 3 different services in the meantime.

In addition to walking or cycling, Hamworthy and Turlin Moor residents can also take the train to town, however, SWR is still only running one train per hour (except Saturday), which is said "to have no vision".

News article is linked here.

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Under such traffic disruption, why there isn't additional train service by extending the Poole-terminating train to Hamworthy, even if it means single-track operation (as the normal train is only hourly, and the distance between Poole and Hamworthy is so short that single-tracking is practical without affecting normal train service) with ticket acceptance for morebus ticket provided between these two stations? I believe the council should be involved in these kind of matters.
 
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yorksrob

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Has this resident tried catching the existing service ?

Sounds like whingeing to me.
 

Darandio

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So Morebus have split routes to cover it but you want extra train services as well? This despite having a thread dedicated to railways that make a loss and should be replaced by alternative modes, i.e buses.
 

adc82140

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The comments in the Bournemouth Echo are all made up by the journalists.
 

swt_passenger

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Under such traffic disruption, why there isn't additional train service by extending the Poole-terminating train to Hamworthy, even if it means single-track operation (as the normal train is only hourly, and the distance between Poole and Hamworthy is so short that single-tracking is practical without affecting normal train service) with ticket acceptance for morebus ticket provided between these two stations? I believe the council should be involved in these kind of matters.
Believe what you like, local councils have little or no say over rail services. This isn’t the Far East you know… :D
I’d be surprised if the council would have even considered rail options.
 
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skyhigh

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Do you expect SWR to rejuggle lots of the crew and unit diagrams, for little to no revenue incentive?

If the council wanted to pay for it, that's fair enough. But if they don't, someone will have to.....
 

miklcct

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So Morebus have split routes to cover it but you want extra train services as well? This despite having a thread dedicated to railways that make a loss and should be replaced by alternative modes, i.e buses.
No bus companies can magically fly their buses to bypass the road works.

And here is about temporary works preventing bus service from running, which is a different matter to running railways at a loss with enough highways for bus operation.
 

Darandio

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No bus companies can magically fly their buses to bypass the road works.

And here is about temporary works preventing bus service from running, which is a different matter to running railways at a loss with enough highways for bus operation.

But the buses can go around can't they? It's only six miles.

There are many things which can prevent these extra train services from running. Extending existing services may well be problematic as it may affect the timetable further down the line. You talk of 'single-tracking'. Assuming this means confining these special Hamworthy terminators to one line does the signalling facilitate this?

And all of this is at fairly short notice with the goal of taking a handful of people into town and back.
 

miklcct

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But the buses can go around can't they? It's only six miles.

There are many things which can prevent these extra train services from running. Extending existing services may well be problematic as it may affect the timetable further down the line. You talk of 'single-tracking'. Assuming this means confining these special Hamworthy terminators to one line does the signalling facilitate this?

And all of this is at fairly short notice with the goal of taking a handful of people into town and back.
Between Hamworthy and old town, the journey time was 6 minutes on the direct route, and now the temporary bus service needs 22 minutes on the diverted route.

Between Turlin Moor and old town, the bus journey time was 22 minutes on the direct route, and now either a long walk on either end, or a transfer must be made except on Sunday.

And yes, single tracking here means running the terminator train only on one of the lines between Poole and Hamworthy if the signalling system allows that. If not, then this is out of question.
 

The exile

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Quite apart from all the other reasons why it isn't happening, it would presumably require someone to have informed SWR that this was happening and to have asked them to do something about it. Did the utility company talk to SWR and offer to stump up the money to provide additional train services for the three weeks? If they did, and SWR answered "no" without investigating the possibilities - then yes, perhaps SWR are suffering from "lack of vision" - in other circumstances, I think someone else is! About 50 miles north of Hamworthy, a City is about to be coping with having one of its few major bridges shut for 6 weeks, with about 4 weeks' overlap with major railway engineering works. That's not "lack of vision" either - just unfortunate COVID-related slippage of one of the sets of works. These things happen - and a 16 minute extension of a journey for three weeks is hardly the end of the world.
 

Gloster

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I believe that the section is not bi-directionally signalled, so operating a shuttle over one line would require Single Line Working to be brought into force. This would require anything up to half-a-dozen staff on each shift to be provided by Network Rail. SWR would have to provide extra drivers and probably several station staff. Operating additional trains with the normal signalling wouldn’t require so many extra staff, but it would probably be necessary to go through to Wareham to reverse. (NB. My familiarity with SLW is a bit rusty and was not in this area.)

None of the above would be cheap, but how many would actually travel: a few extra in the morning rush-hour, a trickle through the day and a few in the evening rush-hour, but virtually nobody otherwise? You would end up with trains as empty as the ones mentioned in a previous thread by the OP.
 

miklcct

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and a 16 minute extension of a journey for three weeks is hardly the end of the world.
How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
 

yorksrob

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Funnilly enough, we did have a situation a couple of years ago where a road bridge was washed out on the Cumbrian coast and the railway was the only way to get from one side of Workington to another was on the train.

The railway built a temporary station on the North side of the river and ran a shuttle service across it.

The difference is that there was really no alternative option.
 

Ianno87

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Funniliy enough, we did have a situation a couple of years ago where a road bridge was washed out on the Cumbrian coast and the railway was the only way to get from one side of Workingtom to another was on the train.

The railway built a temporary station on the North side of the river and ran a shuttle service across it.

The difference is that there was really no alternative option.

And was required for a darn sight longer than 3 weeks.
 

The Planner

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How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
Dramatic hyperbole, millions of pounds because of a diversion?
 

XAM2175

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Perhaps an integrated public transport authority would have made adjustments to the rail service at the same time as they did for bus services, but under the present arrangements it's literally not SWR's problem and they've no incentive to incur costs doing anything about it.

How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
Dollars? None. And if you think businesses relocate indefinitely because of three weeks of impeded access then we're wasting our time trying to explain anything to you.
 

The exile

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How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
Quadrupled sounds dramatic - but it’s only true if your journey starts and ends at the bus stop. Add a five minute walk at each end and the total journey time has only doubled. Still a pain, but well within the tolerance that urban road commuters have to allow anyway. My own commute, when done by road, has been known to vary in one week between 25 and 75 minutes - with no roadworks on the route - with near identical departure times
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Dollars? None. And if you think businesses relocate indefinitely because of three weeks of impeded access then we're wasting our time trying to explain anything to you.
I'm beginning to think that the poster in question is enjoying their time trolling us all with their consistently outlandish posts!
 

skyhigh

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How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
So businesses will move out of the area because a nearby village is 16 minutes further away for 3 weeks?

Has Canary Wharfe relocated while I wasn't looking?

And, again, who is going to pay for this train service?
 

Bevan Price

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Funnilly enough, we did have a situation a couple of years ago where a road bridge was washed out on the Cumbrian coast and the railway was the only way to get from one side of Workington to another was on the train.

The railway built a temporary station on the North side of the river and ran a shuttle service across it.

The difference is that there was really no alternative option.
More than "a couple of years ago". Although it does not seem that long ago, it was about 2009/2010 when that occurred.
 

miklcct

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Dramatic hyperbole, millions of pounds because of a diversion?


The effect of city-wide road blockage is in terms of billions in a major city, so for a village of this scale, I believe that millions is reasonable.

Dollars? None. And if you think businesses relocate indefinitely because of three weeks of impeded access then we're wasting our time trying to explain anything to you.

This may be an exaggeration, but at least businesses in the area will have major disruptions in their activities when businesses meetings are no longer viable due to quadrupled time for staff to get between companies. (maybe even more of travel is by taxi instead of by bus)

Quadrupled sounds dramatic - but it’s only true if your journey starts and ends at the bus stop. Add a five minute walk at each end and the total journey time has only doubled. Still a pain, but well within the tolerance that urban road commuters have to allow anyway. My own commute, when done by road, has been known to vary in one week between 25 and 75 minutes - with no roadworks on the route - with near identical departure times
This kind of commute is a commute hell to me and will lead me to leaving the job if punctuality is important - in such case I can only have at most 5 minutes, preferably within 3 minutes of tolerance from the schedule of the fastest service whenever which mode I'm using.
 

6Gman

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How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?
Then talk to your local authority, not an online railway forum.

And we don't use dollars in this country.

(Businesses are leaving the area because of a few weeks of roadworks?)
 

norbitonflyer

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The effect of city-wide road blockage is in terms of billions in a major city, so for a village of this scale, I believe that millions is reasonable.



This may be an exaggeration, but at least businesses in the area will have major disruptions in their activities when businesses meetings are no longer viable due to quadrupled time for staff to get between companies. (maybe even more of travel is by taxi instead of by bus)


This kind of commute is a commute hell to me and will lead me to leaving the job if punctuality is important -
Whether you quit or are "let go", the diversion will probably have ceased before you've worked out your notice
 

swt_passenger

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This kind of commute is a commute hell to me and will lead me to leaving the job if punctuality is important - in such case I can only have at most 5 minutes, preferably within 3 minutes of tolerance from the schedule of the fastest service whenever which mode I'm using.
Maybe the Bournemouth area just isn’t right for you?
 

Romsey

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Any termination and start back from the down platform would need a handsignalman. The trailing points are power operated and would show their detection at Basingstoke signalling centre.
A safety validation of the interlocking would be required to ascertain what other restrictions would be needed. ( Such as up services being held back at the stop signal between Wareham and Holton Heath.) Once assessed, a few lines of special working instructions would need to be produced and in the Special Traffic Notice and the WON.
It would probably require extra train crew who have route knowledge beyond Poole Sidings.

It's not impossible with a good (financial) justification. Why would SWR and NR put themmselves to the cost and trouble for no revenue and no third party paying?

As someone said upthread, the Bournemouth Echo needed material to fill column inches. It was a chance for someone to have a grumble and get their name in print!

PS If this is so disruptive to the traffic in that area, why doesn't it get mentioned on Radio Solent Travel news which frequently reports problems west of Poole?
 

Bald Rick

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How many millions of dollars of GDP are lost in business activities, when businesses are moving out of the area because the journey time for the whole village to the major economic centre is QUADRUPLED?

Dollars? None.

The effect of city-wide road blockage is in terms of billions in a major city,

Is it? Evidence?
 

yorksrob

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The effect of city-wide road blockage is in terms of billions in a major city, so for a village of this scale, I believe that millions is reasonable.



This may be an exaggeration, but at least businesses in the area will have major disruptions in their activities when businesses meetings are no longer viable due to quadrupled time for staff to get between companies. (maybe even more of travel is by taxi instead of by bus)


This kind of commute is a commute hell to me and will lead me to leaving the job if punctuality is important - in such case I can only have at most 5 minutes, preferably within 3 minutes of tolerance from the schedule of the fastest service whenever which mode I'm using.

It's a very short period of time though.

I've commuted for around twenty years, and the worst period was the re-modelling of Leeds station in 2000.

It lasted months, But in the end it was temporary.
 
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