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Could we see regeneration of areas such as near Curzon Street in Birmingham?

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Domeyhead

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-government-to-give-high-speed-rail-line-the-go-ahead.200154

I found Michael Heseltine's interview on PM two weeks ago most interesting. He pointed out that with projects of this nature, huge benefits accrue in time that cannot possibly be quantified in advance, and he quoted the development of Canary Wharf as an example.

Again the costs were huge and it bankrupted the developer (Olympia and York) and required Government support to complete, and of course it had huge opposition with the usual critics saying the money should be spent on hospitals/schools/ social housing/you name it - but once built it became the springboard for the redevelopment of the whole of Docklands and then the rest of the old East End culminating in the hosting of the Olympics in Stratford of all places - which would have been a Music Hall joke if not for the blue touch paper of the earlier strategic development.

So it will be with HS2 - construction costs can be estimated but the indirect benefits of regeneration cannot - so PR becomes vitally important to get the message across.

Heseltine made one very good point that HS2 Ltd are perhaps not competent to be the Maitre D'Ouvre of the whole project, being overly focussed on the construction itself rather than the wider business opportunities.

He pointed out that places like Curzon Street are not just stations but huge inner city redevelopments that would be major projects in their own right, and need to be part of an overarching strategy and that also includes a far more savvy approach to publicity and public relations to get people genuinely excited by all this.

I don't think anybody could argue for a second that HS2 Ltd have been any good in this area at all - they have been shouted down by just about every uninformed amateur in the country. Chris Packham for Gods Sake! Engineers do not make great Project Managers.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Michael Heseltine pointed out that with projects of this nature, huge benefits accrue in time that cannot possibly be quantified in advance, and he quoted the development of Canary Wharf as an example. Again the costs were huge and it bankrupted the developer (Olympia and York) and required Government support to complete, and of course it had huge opposition with the usual critics saying the money should be spent on hospitals/schools/ social housing/you name it - but once built it became the springboard for the redevelopment of the whole of docklands and then the rest of the old East End culminating in the hosting of the Olympics in Stratford of all places - which would have been a Music Hall joke if not for the blue touch paper of the earlier strategic development. So it will be with HS2 - construction costs cannot just stations but huge inner city redevelopments that would be major projects in their own right,

Great point about Canary Wharf. I feel the same way about HS2.
 

158756

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Great point about Canary Wharf. I feel the same way about HS2.

There's a major difference though in that there are tens of thousands of jobs at Canary Wharf. Redevelopment around Curzon Street, or in Manchester and Leeds if HS2 ever gets there, is most likely to be dominated by flats completely unaffordable to the vast majority of the population.
 

GRALISTAIR

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There's a major difference though in that there are tens of thousands of jobs at Canary Wharf. Redevelopment around Curzon Street, or in Manchester and Leeds if HS2 ever gets there, is most likely to be dominated by flats completely unaffordable to the vast majority of the population.
There were not at the time though. That is the whole point surely?
 

diffident

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There's a major difference though in that there are tens of thousands of jobs at Canary Wharf. Redevelopment around Curzon Street, or in Manchester and Leeds if HS2 ever gets there, is most likely to be dominated by flats completely unaffordable to the vast majority of the population.

I disagree, Birmingham is currently going through a jobs boom, partly as a result of the development on that side of the city. Recent firms heavily investing in Birmingham are HSBC and now BT have also confirmed a huge new facility, right next door to HS2 in Snow Hill in fact!!

Whilst maybe not the sole reason, future connectivity including HS2 will have been in the thinking for these moves.
 

thejuggler

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There's a major difference though in that there are tens of thousands of jobs at Canary Wharf. Redevelopment around Curzon Street, or in Manchester and Leeds if HS2 ever gets there, is most likely to be dominated by flats completely unaffordable to the vast majority of the population.

Visit Leeds and take a walk down Wellington Street. In 2009/10 everything stopped, by 2015 it was starting again and now over 1,000,000 sq ft of new office has been built or is in development. South Bank around the new station will provide opportunities for new office development and residential units.

The irony is of course Leeds commuter routes are now woefully inadequate for the number of people working in the city centre.
 

158756

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There were not at the time though. That is the whole point surely?

London is on a completely different planet economically to the rest of the country. Expecting HS2 to lead to anything remotely comparable even to a 1:10 scale model of Canary Wharf in Birmingham or Manchester is only going to lead to disappointment and anger amongst the population when it doesn't happen. By far the biggest HS2-related regeneration (or rather, making a wealthy city even better off) impact will be at Euston and Old Oak Common.
 

Bantamzen

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Visit Leeds and take a walk down Wellington Street. In 2009/10 everything stopped, by 2015 it was starting again and now over 1,000,000 sq ft of new office has been built or is in development. South Bank around the new station will provide opportunities for new office development and residential units.

The irony is of course Leeds commuter routes are now woefully inadequate for the number of people working in the city centre.

And that's before several thousand more public sector staff start moving into the new government hub on Whitehall Road later this year!
 

camflyer

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Sounds like the sections north of Birmingham are being rebranded as "High Speed North"
 

nidave

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London is on a completely different planet economically to the rest of the country. Expecting HS2 to lead to anything remotely comparable even to a 1:10 scale model of Canary Wharf in Birmingham or Manchester is only going to lead to disappointment and anger amongst the population when it doesn't happen. By far the biggest HS2-related regeneration (or rather, making a wealthy city even better off) impact will be at Euston and Old Oak Common.
Have you ever taken a trip to Salford Quays ???
 

158756

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Have you ever taken a trip to Salford Quays ???

A pretty generic shopping centre, some flats and a state owned broadcaster who would leave tomorrow if it weren't for the politics involved. It's certainly better than nothing, but being honest about it, there is no comparison with Canary Wharf. And obviously the regional bit of the BBC isn't available for any HS2 terminus.
 

nidave

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A pretty generic shopping centre, some flats and a state owned broadcaster who would leave tomorrow if it weren't for the politics involved. It's certainly better than nothing, but being honest about it, there is no comparison with Canary Wharf. And obviously the regional bit of the BBC isn't available for any HS2 terminus.
Rubbish - the place has been transformed.
Not counting all the other businesses in the area you have whitewashed, ITV, Channel 4 plus numerous independent media companies. the IWM, Lowery centre, pubs and restaurants. You might want to take a trip one day.
There are lots of regeneration success stories outside London which are only going to benefit from HS2 and the massive release of capacity for more stopping services on the WCML
 

GRALISTAIR

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Rubbish - the place has been transformed.
Not counting all the other businesses in the area you have whitewashed, ITV, Channel 4 plus numerous independent media companies. the IWM, Lowery centre, pubs and restaurants. You might want to take a trip one day.
There are lots of regeneration success stories outside London which are only going to benefit from HS2 and the massive release of capacity for more stopping services on the WCML
Agreed my daughter works there
 

Ianno87

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A pretty generic shopping centre, some flats and a state owned broadcaster who would leave tomorrow if it weren't for the politics involved. It's certainly better than nothing, but being honest about it, there is no comparison with Canary Wharf. And obviously the regional bit of the BBC isn't available for any HS2 terminus.

To summarise: It's been at least a decade or so since you last saw it.
 

158756

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To summarise: It's been at least a decade or so since you last saw it.

Two years would be more accurate. Since the BBC moved in what else has happened - the northern branch of the IWM (subsidised) and more flats. Another poster mentioned pubs and restaurants - fine, they do employ some people, but pubs and restaurants vs Canary Wharf?? Maybe it counts as a big thing up here, but in London no one would bat an eyelid. Beyond the new build flats inner city Salford remains one of the poorest places in the country.
 

Meerkat

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Two years would be more accurate. Since the BBC moved in what else has happened - the northern branch of the IWM (subsidised) and more flats. Another poster mentioned pubs and restaurants - fine, they do employ some people, but pubs and restaurants vs Canary Wharf?? Maybe it counts as a big thing up here, but in London no one would bat an eyelid. Beyond the new build flats inner city Salford remains one of the poorest places in the country.
Some of the poorest places in the country are in sight of Canary Wharf too
 
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