Council hopes Halton curve and Ditton station will be reopened by 2028.

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by jcollins, 31 Oct 2011.

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  1. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    EXPANSION of the 3MG freight park, further development of Widnes waterfront and the regeneration of West Bank have been identified as future priorities by Halton Council.

    The plans are contained in a ‘core document’ developed by the authority outlining its vision for the town until 2028, although some of larger projects are classed by the authority as ‘aspirational’ and no funding has yet been identified.

    Included in the planned projects are:
    Re-opening Ditton railway station as part of plans to reopen the Halton Curve rail link between Chester and Liverpool.

    Construction of 3,900 new homes, with 400 in South Widnes.

    A bus service to the 3MG development in Halebank, and a £4.5m project to build four rail sidings connecting it to the West Coast Main Line.

    An £18m scheme to build a link road from the A5300 Knowsley Expressway to the HBC field site at 3MG.

    Improved road links from West Bank to Widnes Waterfront as part of the Mersey Gateway Project, and the expansion of the number 13 bus service to service the waterfront.

    Restoration of the Sankey Canal costing between £10-12m, with a Heritage Lottery Grant for the project currently pending.

    The report also said there was more scope in Widnes town centre for further shopping developments in the field of ‘bulky goods’.

    The final draft of the plan is currently with Eric Pickles (communities and local government) for approval.

    http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...-expansion-planned-for-widnes-55368-29665908/
     
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  3. cle

    cle Established Member

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    I think this curve is equally as worthwhile as the Tod one, and should definitely be prioritised.

    There could be a Wrexham service and also one to Llandudno/Bangor/Holyhead.

    The WAG could contribute, as it would hugely help Wales too. Both North Wales and Wrexham area would have much quicker access to a bigger jobs market, and also airport. Not to mention traffic relief. Merseyside could contribute too, as it'd get all the Scousers to their chosen resorts.
     
  4. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Let us see if this particular bridge will be crossed, before we raise our hopes on this project.
     
  5. Holly

    Holly Member

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    2028!

    The world will be a very different place by 2028.
     
  6. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    Will that be before or after Christmas ?
     
  7. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    This must be a "blessing in disguise" for the council. who can claim that it is a long-term planning project and can therefore consign it to the "questions not to be answered for a long time" department. I must confess that 17 years gives them plenty of scope.:roll:
     
  8. Cheshire Rover

    Cheshire Rover Member

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    Such a simple, straightforward and (relatively) cheap project to undertake. I'm sure the people of Wales would love a direct(ish) route into JLA and Lime St. From a selfish perspective, it would mean I didn't have to change at Chester for Liverpool or drive into the city. But of course this has no influence on my view on the Halton Curve.
     
  9. Holly

    Holly Member

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    There was, at one time, talk of a new station, a turnback station, on the Halton curve to serve the local population (Beechwood station?). Was that shelved?
    Oh, and by the way, Ditton Junction is nowhere near Halton curve. What possible sense is there in tying the two together?
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    If they are both in Halton they must be fairly close as the borough of Halton is a small borough.
     
  11. cle

    cle Established Member

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    I think this project has such potential. It's depressing that it's in their 17 year plan to get a curve built.

    Yes it's on a busy stretch of the WCML and would require some signalling work, but it's still a relatively simple job and ther alignment (and 50% of the track) are there.

    Money could potentially come from NR, Merseyside, the AW, Cheshire, Liverpool Airport, North Wales councils, freight users...all manner of sources would benefit from it.

    I guess the more beneficiaries, the more wrangling over who pays there would be!

    You could even argue for EU money as it connects England, Wales and possibly Ireland through access to Holyhead.
     
  12. Cheshire Rover

    Cheshire Rover Member

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  13. davelew99

    davelew99 Member

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    Erm, maybe i don't understand how these things work but how can it have a cost-benefit ratio of 1.4-1.9 if it requires a subsidy of £1.1m-2.1m?
     
  14. OxtedL

    OxtedL Established Member Quizmaster

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    A BCR of more than one does not mean that the scheme will pay for itself directly, but rather that economically it will generate more money than it costs.

    If a scheme pays for itself, then it has a "positive business case" over the appraisal period, and then it's simply a case of finding the cash to make the investment.

    A typical Network Rail RUS analysis looks like this: Costs are added up and revenue subtracted. If this gives a negative cost (ie pays for itself) then it has a positive business case. Some attempt to quantify benefits is then made, typically "Rail user benefits" and "non-rail user benefits" - probably people benefiting from lower congestion or something similar. The ratio is then found.

    Hope this helps.
     
  15. Philip Elliott

    Philip Elliott Member

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    No rail scheme ever pays for itself through the farebox - otherwise we would be getting private money in with no need for the government. The whole appraisal method is skewed to give what the government / local authority / NR wants.
     
  16. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Intersting to see that it is easy to make statements with the word "could" rather than the word "will" in them. Any MP knows this only too well and can give them the opportunity to be seen to giving their approval to "hoped-for" projects, without any commitment being required on their (or their party's) part.

    About 40 years have now elapsed since the line assumed its current status.
     
  17. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Surely the North Wales AMs should also be supporting this - even though it's in England, it would benefit North Wales immensely.
     
  18. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I'd love to see them push for it, but I can't see it. If they were *that* bothered then they'd have done more to push for direct links between Wales and Liverpool already (regardless of the chord) - there used to be direct services from both north and south Wales, before the fad for running Holyhead - Cardiff services...
     
  19. merlodlliw

    merlodlliw Established Member

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    In my opinion no one has asked them, far too concerned with the Wrexham redouble. Although Cardiff does manage all the Stations Chester to Runcorn East.

    Lets not forget we also have M.Ps as well, who are better joined up across the Border.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Indeed, The Liverpool Club Train used the curve on its journey, it was ex Lime Street 4.25pm to Afonwen via Caernarfon, there were other trains Liverpool to Nth Wales , but alas not run for many,many years .

    Bob
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2011
  20. Sox

    Sox Member

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  21. OxtedL

    OxtedL Established Member Quizmaster

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    It is, but it's single track and can only be used in one direction as there is no crossover at the Liverpool end, iirc. This makes it essentially useless and means a fair amount of expenditure is required if you want to use it in regular service again...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halton_Curve
     
  22. Holly

    Holly Member

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    Not only that, but a turnback station on the curve itself is needed.
    And if you make a turnback station you need at least double tracking and preferably a short amount of electrification.

    Given that electrification will suddenly come back into fashion when $250 oil is a reality (see "Iran says oil would go over $250 if exports banned" and they likely will be banned
    http://news.yahoo.com/iran-says-oil-over-250-exports-banned-102435950.html) then it makes sense to electrify from Runcorn to Chester.

    Just as it makes sense to electrify 80% of transport when oil fuel becomes unaffordable (except for air travel as it is unavoidable for that purpose).
     
  23. Sox

    Sox Member

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    If, as the wikipedia article suggests, the curve is designed for northerly trains only, I wonder how they "get back" to their point of origin?
     
  24. OxtedL

    OxtedL Established Member Quizmaster

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    They don't. Very few trains use it, as the article also states, and the only ones that do run northbound only with no return journey, they just saunter off and do something else... :)

    The specific diagram is somewhere on the forum, I think.
     
  25. Sox

    Sox Member

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    lol!!!
     
  26. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    The unit that runs the summer Saturday only Chester-Runcorn service runs through to Lime St ECS for further duties IIRC.

    I don't get what was so funny about OxtedL's post.
     
  27. Sox

    Sox Member

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    Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, the bit of Oxtedl's post that I highlighted had the smiley after it.

    Therefore I took it in the spirit of a jocular analogy, i.e. the conjuring up of an image of trains "just sauntering off".
     
  28. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Quite, but I don't understand why it needed bolded size 5/6 letters :|

    Anyway, back on topic...
     
  29. Sox

    Sox Member

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    What font size do you normally prefer?
     
  30. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    The one that's used for 99.9% of posts on here ;)

    Anyway, is it more or does 2028 show a lack of ambition?
     
  31. Cheshire Rover

    Cheshire Rover Member

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