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Councils should reinvest car parking profits in backing buses to combat congestions

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overthewater

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I totally agree with this, and it will only take radical ideas to solve the increase problems with Congestion.

https://www.stagecoach.com/media/ne...x?hootPostID=b880dfe759c6ce1fc0cc2bc57dd09bf9

COUNCILS SHOULD REINVEST CAR PARKING PROFITS IN BACKING BUSES TO COMBAT CONGESTION AND AIR QUALITY CRISIS
17 Dec 2018

  • Stagecoach calls for cash to fund measures to encourage more use of sustainable local transport
  • Local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales share combined £925m annual parking surplus
  • Car parking profits contrast with major council cuts to investment in bus services since 2011-12
  • Money should be ring-fenced to improve bus priority and traffic management to tackle gridlock
Britain's biggest bus operator today (17 December 2018) called on councils across Britain to reinvest their hundreds of millions of pounds of profits from car parking in measures to back the country's bus networks.

Stagecoach said the £925m annual surplus from car parking fees and enforcement shared by local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales could help bus passengers and tackle the growing congestion and air quality crisis in towns and cities across the UK.

Data published by the RAC Foundation shows that council profits from on-street and off-street parking car parking in England has risen by almost a third (32%) over the past four years and in 2017-18 stood at £867m.

In Wales, the surplus for 2017-18 was £14.4m, up 3% on 2016-17 and the fifth consecutive annual increase.

Statistics for 2017-18 covering councils in Scotland has not yet been published, but the equivalent figure for 2016-17 was £42.6m, an increase of 6% on 2015-16.

The increasing council profits from car parking is in stark contrast with the significant cuts to local authority spending on buses in recent years - despite the bus being Britain's most important and heaviest used mode of public transport.

Data published earlier this year by the Campaign for Better Transport shows that local authority bus budgets in England and Wales were cut by £20.5 million in 2017-18 - the eighth year in a row investment has been reduced.

Since 2010-11, 3,347 council funded bus services in England and Wales have been reduced, altered or withdrawn, with spending down 46% in England and 39% in Wales between 2010-11 and 2017-18.

Mark Threapleton. Managing Director of Stagecoach UK Bus said: "Towns and cities across Britain are facing a congestion and air quality crisis, which is damaging the health of our bus networks, the health of our economy and the health of individuals.

"These figures show that councils are making huge profits from car parking every year, but instead of that money being reinvested in measures to help bus passengers and encourage modal shift to sustainable bus travel, bus budgets are being slashed.

"With around 30% of high street spending coming from bus users, these investment cuts are not just bad news for public transport, but bad news for local businesses.

"If local authorities are serious about addressing air quality, backing the high street and supporting local communities, we believe car parking profits should be ring-fenced to protect and improve Britain's buses. This is absolutely not about subsidies for bus companies, it is about targeted measures to help bus passengers.

"We could see a massive positive impact if that level of funding was used to promote sustainable bus travel, deliver better bus priority for passengers, and introduce traffic management measures to address congestion."

The car parking profits equate to more than four times the combined £204.5m budgeted spend by councils in England and Wales in 2018-19. Total budgeted spend for buses in England in 2018-19 is £189.7m and for Wales is £14.8m.

Buses account for around 60% of all public transport journeys, with around 5 billion journeys by bus in Britain every year.
 
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Esker-pades

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CAPITAL LETTER RESPONSE FOR NO REASON.

And now to be serious:
In theory, this makes sense. However, council budgets are under pressure from all angles. Public transport is much further down the list of priorities than (for example) social care. Given that councils are barely holding that together, the idea that money should be used to subsidies bus services is much less attractive, certainly to councillors and politicians. It would be lovely to have both, but the money currently doesn't exist within the council budget. That is why council subsidies for buses were reduced in the first place.
 

carlberry

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Standard PR release, even including a bit to suggest they're not saying this to make more money from subsidised buses! The basic argument is that councils have all this wonderful money that either they don't know what to do with or is, at present, disappearing somewhere (and both of them are possible the way some councils are run!). However the money is either already being used for buses or to cover the cost of the services that councils are legally required to run or isn't actually there in the first place (i.e. the 'profit' reported is actually net income and the cost of provision (structure maintenance and staffing) appears somewhere else in the accounts). This isn't to knock the idea of using buses to fight congestion and air quality, however the money will have to come from somewhere else (HS2, Trident, fuel tax increases etc).
 

Tetchytyke

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BRIAN SOUTER SAYS COUNCILS SHOULDN'T PROFIT FROM CAR PARKS WHEN HE CAN PROFIT FROM BUSES.

Councils making £900m is disgusting because it hasn't been placed in his and Gloag's bank account.
 

Tetchytyke

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Joking aside, they do have a point, but equally the bus networks wouldn't be contracting so rapidly if Stagecoach weren't such aggressive profiteers.

They also miss the point that most councils are using the car park revenues, which are legally ringfenced to spend on transport, to meet the shortfall on ENCTS funding. Which gets paid directly to, er, Stagecoach, for buses it would already run.

"Billionaire demands more tax money to be given to him" is about the long and short of it though.
 

Gingerbus1991

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BRIAN SOUTER SAYS COUNCILS SHOULDN'T PROFIT FROM CAR PARKS WHEN HE CAN PROFIT FROM BUSES.

Councils making £900m is disgusting because it hasn't been placed in his and Gloag's bank account.
Joking aside, they do have a point, but equally the bus networks wouldn't be contracting so rapidly if Stagecoach weren't such aggressive profiteers.

They also miss the point that most councils are using the car park revenues, which are legally ringfenced to spend on transport, to meet the shortfall on ENCTS funding. Which gets paid directly to, er, Stagecoach, for buses it would already run.

"Billionaire demands more tax money to be given to him" is about the long and short of it though.
Hence why bus services should be publicly owned, least then its not falling into the hands of private companies
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Joking aside, they do have a point, but equally the bus networks wouldn't be contracting so rapidly if Stagecoach weren't such aggressive profiteers.

They also miss the point that most councils are using the car park revenues, which are legally ringfenced to spend on transport, to meet the shortfall on ENCTS funding. Which gets paid directly to, er, Stagecoach, for buses it would already run.

"Billionaire demands more tax money to be given to him" is about the long and short of it though.

It wouldn't run at the same level - we've been through this before.

Put it another way, if the government said to you, half the week you work at normal prevailing pay rate per hour but we will arbitrarily pay you at 50% for the other half of the week, you'd be fine with that?

Why stop there? Why not benefit all of society? Demand that all supermarkets sell their food at half price to the old and needy - especially those ones owned by foreign business owners?
 

Gingerbus1991

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Well at the end of the day I see no good reason to put more money into buses, I do not see more investment making the bus a more attractive way to get around.
 

Nammer

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I totally agree with spending money on priorities to speed up buses, making them more attractive. But here in Portsmouth the council has taken any spare road space for car parking at the worst pinch points, meaning what could be bus lanes are now places to park cars and vans. The wrong way to go to decrease congestion. Plus there is no traffic enforcement as far as I can see. Every day my bus journey is delayed by cars/vans/lorries parked on double yellow lines and bus stop clear ways. The bus gets delayed as it can’t pull up to the stop or get through. All the traffic behind backs up.
 

carlberry

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Well at the end of the day I see no good reason to put more money into buses, I do not see more investment making the bus a more attractive way to get around.
?????
If more investment dosent make it more attractive then what does?? Less?
Everything that makes buses more attractive requires investment as part of the equation: Bus lanes (money plus political will), frequency (money), internal environment (money - better seats, wifi etc), more routes (money), advertising (money).
 

Gingerbus1991

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?????
If more investment dosent make it more attractive then what does?? Less?
Everything that makes buses more attractive requires investment as part of the equation: Bus lanes (money plus political will), frequency (money), internal environment (money - better seats, wifi etc), more routes (money), advertising (money).
I can't see that making much difference in glasgow anyways.
 

Mwanesh

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Hence why bus services should be publicly owned, least then its not falling into the hands of private companies
They were public owned before so no difference.If you look at the remaining municipals most are struggling except Nottingham and Lothian .Reading was bailed by the council a few years ago.
 

overthewater

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The only way publicly owned bus companies could be allowed is if there operate like Lothian buses ie arms length.
 

Gingerbus1991

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The biggest problem with any bus usage or investment, Isn't that surrounding busy city centres but rural location.
 

Tetchytyke

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It wouldn't run at the same level - we've been through this before.

Put it another way, if the government said to you, half the week you work at normal prevailing pay rate per hour but we will arbitrarily pay you at 50% for the other half of the week, you'd be fine with that?

I'm not sure what your point is.

Without ENCTS and with people paying concessionary fares the same services would run at the same frequency. That, after all, is how the ENCTS reimbursement rate is calculated. And that's how it was before ENCTS when, up here, mileage was 25% higher.

My point is that this car park money doesn't (usually) disappear into a black hole, it is being used to prop up ENCTS. Which Stagecoach are the beneficiaries of. Councils can't spend the money twice.

The issue with Stagecoach has always been their desire to hide PVR cuts behind vague allegations of traffic congestion. They've been doing it for 25 years up here.

I also can't think of a reason why Mr Souter can't dip into his £1.1bn wealth to assist councils in developing the road network. Shopping centres do it.
 

Mwanesh

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I'm not sure what your point is.

Without ENCTS and with people paying concessionary fares the same services would run at the same frequency. That, after all, is how the ENCTS reimbursement rate is calculated. And that's how it was before ENCTS when, up here, mileage was 25% higher.

My point is that this car park money doesn't (usually) disappear into a black hole, it is being used to prop up ENCTS. Which Stagecoach are the beneficiaries of. Councils can't spend the money twice.

The issue with Stagecoach has always been their desire to hide PVR cuts behind vague allegations of traffic congestion. They've been doing it for 25 years up here.

I also can't think of a reason why Mr Souter can't dip into his £1.1bn wealth to assist councils in developing the road network. Shopping centres do it.
you blame Stagecoach for cuts to bus services.Why should they run services thats dont pay.If services dont pay they get downsized.Look at TFL with the cuts coming in.Its a public body .Lothian is a the capital gets tteated better.If you want just regulate the buses it wont change a thing.
 

Jonny

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Perhaps invest it in railway infrastructure instead, wherever practical. PSVs/buses are not a particularly good way to travel more than about two or three miles (even compared to road coaches).
 

Mwanesh

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Perhaps invest it in railway infrastructure instead, wherever practical. PSVs/buses are not a particularly good way to travel more than about two or three miles (even compared to road coaches).
Show me a train that stops every few metres and goes to hospitals.Trains need buses and vice versa.
 

carlberry

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Bus infrastructure is often designed and planned by local authorities who thinks that their boundaries are the edge of the world.
Oddly that's why they're called local authorities and why their taxpayers are unlikely to want that to change!
 

SCH117X

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My point is that this car park money doesn't (usually) disappear into a black hole, it is being used to prop up ENCTS. Which Stagecoach are the beneficiaries of. Councils can't spend the money twice.
Its slightly more complex in two tier council areas - in North Yorkshire the County Council are repsonsible for bus services but only receive monies from on street pay and display parking. Off street parking is provided normally by the District Councils who do not directly fund bus services. Then there is the case in Ripon where both Procters (Dales & District) and Harrogate Coach Travel (Connexions) have abandoned the local service as being unviable commerically after North Yorkshire decided it was unviable to continue to support it as a subsidised service, and it has been left to the local parish council (Ripon City Council) to seek an operator - on a temporary basis that being a North Yorkshire County Council minibus.
 

GusB

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Perhaps invest it in railway infrastructure instead, wherever practical. PSVs/buses are not a particularly good way to travel more than about two or three miles (even compared to road coaches).
So what happens when journeys are more than two or three miles and there's no railway infrastructure nearby? My journey into town is seven miles, and while the village did have a railway connection (and still does have a station, complete with platform) it hasn't seen a train since the 50s. While I would love to be able to catch a train from here again, it's never going to make financial sense. What about those areas that have never had a railway?

Not everyone lives in big towns and cities!
 

deltic

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By law profits from on street parking must be reinvested into transport. Most of those profits are made by London Boroughs and are used to cover London’s concessionary fare system. Off street parking profits which are relatively small can be used for anything. Quite a few councils lose money on parking and there is a growing tendency for councils to sell off their car parks for more profitable purposes
 

alex397

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Hence why bus services should be publicly owned, least then its not falling into the hands of private companies

Because its about time politicians had more say on how buses are run, especially with their many well-thought sensible ideas :E:E:E

Just look at London - constantly major changes as the Mayor decides he wants something. Boris doesn't like bendies? Withdraws them all despite being relatively new. Mayor wants a new bus? Loads of money spent on the New Routemaster (incidentally a good bus imo, but it has proved costly). Mayor wants to please the voters? Freeze the fares putting TfL's finances under huge strain.

And most councils are struggling financially, and generally focusing their money on the most important things, e.g. health and education, NOT buses. Do we really want cash-strapped councils in charge of buses? In some cases, some commercial operators have in fact taken over supported-routes and are operating them commercially (albeit, in many cases a reduced timetable), saving taxpayers money through efficiencies.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I'm not sure what your point is.

Without ENCTS and with people paying concessionary fares the same services would run at the same frequency. That, after all, is how the ENCTS reimbursement rate is calculated. And that's how it was before ENCTS when, up here, mileage was 25% higher.

My point is that this car park money doesn't (usually) disappear into a black hole, it is being used to prop up ENCTS. Which Stagecoach are the beneficiaries of. Councils can't spend the money twice.

The issue with Stagecoach has always been their desire to hide PVR cuts behind vague allegations of traffic congestion. They've been doing it for 25 years up here.

I also can't think of a reason why Mr Souter can't dip into his £1.1bn wealth to assist councils in developing the road network. Shopping centres do it.
Let me clarify....

The facts are that bus companies are not merely charging for capacity that would already be used. Bus companies are being recompensed at a rate of less than 40% of the adult fare. Therefore, where pensioners were paying a fare before, they would have to make many more journeys for a bus company to get the same revenue. Given that the costs of operation are pretty constant, and that pensioners make up about 50% of journeys made, that is a massive cut in revenue.

Car park money is not used to prop up ENCTS. It is not hypothecated. It is merely one of a number of revenue sources that local authorities have from the central government grant (being continually cut until it ceases to exist), local revenue generation (like business rates and council tax), charging for services (such as social care). Those funds are then aggregated and then used to fund all the statutory responsibilities etc such as funding ENCTS. So what the government have done is to put an onus on operators (they have to accept ENCTS at rock bottom rates) and on councils to fund (despite withdrawing central government funding).

We all know you don't like Souter but if you're saying that congestion isn't increasing and impacting on bus companies across the country, you're not much more than a flat earther!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Because its about time politicians had more say on how buses are run, especially with their many well-thought sensible ideas :E:E:E

Just look at London - constantly major changes as the Mayor decides he wants something. Boris doesn't like bendies? Withdraws them all despite being relatively new. Mayor wants a new bus? Loads of money spent on the New Routemaster (incidentally a good bus imo, but it has proved costly). Mayor wants to please the voters? Freeze the fares putting TfL's finances under huge strain.

Do we really want cash-strapped councils in charge of buses? In some cases, some commercial operators have in fact taken over supported-routes and are operating them commercially (albeit, in many cases a reduced timetable), saving taxpayers money through efficiencies.

Correct. I see some of the crackpot ideas my home council had in the days when money was available - just frittered it away on ridiculous dead duck projects. Crazy!
 

Gingerbus1991

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If you dislike buses so much why are you on this forum. And why call yourself gingerbus when it should be pollution fanatic!
Mike R
Polution fanatic? After all, nobody bar some enthusiasts wants to sit on an old, dilapidated B10 and enviromentally unfriendly bus.
The “Shared” piece does state “COUNCILS SHOULD REINVEST CAR PARKING PROFITS IN BACKING BUSES TO COMBAT CONGESTION AND AIR QUALITY CRISIS

I do not dislike buses, but I do disagree with the general attitude that more investment into bus services will improve anything other than line the pockets of more operators that have given us substandard services or vehicles to travel on, Realistically the only way of increasing patronage would be through free buses, I’ve lived in Glasgow my whole 28 years and in that past I can’t recall anyone here speaking of our local operators as anything other than poor, too expensive and unreliable, even there latest purchases have left a few people with a bad taste in there mouth, a few of there new buses have broke already not to mention some of the latest 18 plates are starting to look dirty in areas inside as well.

Anyways, how can more investment help tackle congestion? From my experience overall, it can’t. from what I’ve heard from friends and family not to mention fellow drivers I used to work alongside, most in glasgow choose to drive even if that does mean sitting in traffic jams for longer and even if that option is the more expensive option, on top of this, Glasgows LEZ may look to charge more people to enter the city centre with private cars but In my eyes this will only mean less will shop or look for work inside this zone if it means using a bus, in the face of things it may help to quieten the city centre streets but by no means will extra investment bring in new customers, stopping the decline in passenger use should be a priority, but doing so will take a miracle.

I am a firm believer in saying “use it or lose it”, if this decline is infinite I see little change in approach from the general public, local authorities or the governemnt in the short term.
Show me a train that stops every few metres and goes to hospitals.Trains need buses and vice versa.
Yet far more people drive there cars to train station car parks nowadays than ever before, the numbers of individuals using a bus to get to a train station is highly likely to be of minimal amounts, especially for those living rurally.
 
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