Coupling and uncoupling with passengers on board

[185]

and the 'customer service' risk of passengers being delayed, missing connections etc

I would say the whole process took a matter of just 20-30 seconds with a brake test, however, if late, we'd generally open the doors & re-shut first. Most passengers understood, and the majority of passengers on the platform, bizarrely for commuters - stood back and waited patiently during coupling up - keen to keep out of the way and avoid delaying the train. Any 'sheep' who wandered forward usually got shouted at by their fellow passengers.

 

[Tomnick]

I would say the whole process took a matter of just 20-30 seconds with a brake test, however, if late, we'd generally open the doors & re-shut first. Most passengers understood, and the majority of passengers on the platform, bizarrely for commuters - stood back and waited patiently during coupling up - keen to keep out of the way and avoid delaying the train. Any 'sheep' who wandered forward usually got shouted at by their fellow passengers.

It’s fair enough for me (been there, done that) but I know it troubles some folk on here, that’s all! It can make all the difference with a tight turnaround.

 

[Jasperpro]

Every company has its own policy on coupling in service. It’s based on risk assessment and requirement. London Northwestern can do it with less risk of injury to passengers thanks to the slow speed setting and auto couplers on Desiro units.

 

[greaterwest]

Presumably explaining my never seeing it on a 450 or 444 either, which is why I made the earlier point, which GW43125 thought was wrong.

A pull test is required on class 450 and class 444, and regular passenger attach/detachments occur at Woking, Eastleigh, Salisbury (158/159) with no problem. I couldn't comment on the procedure at SWR termini however I'd imagine the units would be trained first before detachments take place (Portsmouth Harbour comes to mind)

 

[swt_passenger]

A pull test is required on class 450 and class 444, and regular passenger attach/detachments occur at Woking, Eastleigh, Salisbury (158/159) with no problem. I couldn't comment on the procedure at SWR termini however I'd imagine the units would be trained first before detachments take place (Portsmouth Harbour comes to mind)

Could you explain when in the procedure this pull away test happens please, because it’s pretty well disguised, with none of the noise and straining you see/feel on some classes.

 

[greaterwest]

Could you explain when in the procedure this pull away test happens please, because it’s pretty well disguised, with none of the noise and straining you see/feel on some classes.

The attaching unit will attempt to pull away, and you can hear the traction motors on them. Stand on the platform near the motor coach of the attached train next time you're at Woking. This will be the country end unit on a Sunday.

 

[37057]

But if it's a Desiro then the cab will have gone dead when coupled and a pull away test will not be possible unless they're only mechanically coupled.

 

[Val3ntine]

No pull away test on desiro stocks 450/444 and 707. Can’t speak for the other desiros but these stock simply are proved coupled by the computer. Any issues with the proceedure the computer will flag it up. Once coupled it’s not possible to do a pull away test as cab is now a middle cab and desk cannot be opened up unless the uncouple proceedure has been started.
Very quick proceedure which is over in less than 10 seconds.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Jonfun]

Or somebody saw something, thought there might be a potential for the brown stuff and kneejerked. Not that any manager would ever take an action without thinking it through first, would they?

A TOC down the road from me has an absolute ban on traincrews locking doors out of use for operational convenience, which means that where there are short platforms and no SDO, they have to use local door only - even if it's only one door at the rear of the train which would be on the ramp instead of fully platformed, which we would handle by locking out that rear door temporarily and working the rest of the train normally, they have to use local door only, meaning 4 or 5 coaches worth of passengers using one door. And then they wonder why their punctuality is woeful!

A lot of that depends on type of stock - eg if you can override the manual lock using the egress then that is permissible in the rule book. Our TOC has a meet in the middle whereby any *vehicles* with doors off the platform are locked out.

 

[anamyd]

Was on a Transport for Wales 158 on a Cambrian Line service from Aberystwyth to Birmingham recently, and no announcement was made about the "jolt" like there sometimes is. The stranger at my table was shocked when the unit from Pwllheli attached to ours at Machynlleth, like "what the **** just happened?!" I explained to him what had just happened, and he explained that where he's from (near London) a single train is longer than those two small units coupled together I did warn him that the train would be "going backwards" past Shrewsbury

 

[ricoblade]

It happened the other Saturday at Kiveton Park. We were on the hourly Lincoln to Leeds service and the previous train had failed at Kiveton Park. We coupled up to it and then pushed it to Sheffield (where both then terminated). The guard announced that all this was going to happen but didn't give any "bump" warnings and in the end we barely felt anything.

This did create chaos at the level crossing as our unit overhung it for quite a while. A couple of road rage instances kept the carriage amused while we waited to couple up!

 

[Groningen]

Coupling in the Netherlands is done with or without a warning on arrival. Announcement on the PA: the doors remain closed untill the train is combined (with another train).

Uncoupling is done with the trainset that will go out of service. On the screens on the platform there is no destination mentioned.

 

[pompeyfan]

Could you explain when in the procedure this pull away test happens please, because it’s pretty well disguised, with none of the noise and straining you see/feel on some classes.

The attaching unit will attempt to pull away, and you can hear the traction motors on them. Stand on the platform near the motor coach of the attached train next time you're at Woking. This will be the country end unit on a Sunday.

But if it's a Desiro then the cab will have gone dead when coupled and a pull away test will not be possible unless they're only mechanically coupled.

No pull away test on desiro stocks 450/444 and 707. Can’t speak for the other desiros but these stock simply are proved coupled by the computer. Any issues with the proceedure the computer will flag it up. Once coupled it’s not possible to do a pull away test as cab is now a middle cab and desk cannot be opened up unless the uncouple proceedure has been started.
Very quick proceedure which is over in less than 10 seconds.

Only 6 weeks late to the party, but could it be that the poster was actually referring to the driver easing up to reduce the tension on the coupler when splitting. It’s not a mandatory procedure to ease up but preferred by fleet!

 

[Deepgreen]

Try attaching a Networker on a curved platform at Cannon St. I've been thrown to the floor in a rear cab whilst that's been done. If that happens to an elderly passenger or a child what do you think will happen to the driver? Unfortunately today's blame someone else and sue society means it's simply too risky.

Does this mean that you refuse to attach two occupied portions anywhere, regardless of rules, timetable, etc., or just at Cannon Street? If you follow rules/guidelines set out for your circumstances I would not expect any legal action arising from any outcome to fall against you. Furthermore, if you refuse to attach without emptying and locking, but the timetable demands a quicker attachment, how would you explain this (presumably on multiple occasions) to your manager?

If your fear of legal reprisals in this way is so strong, I would suggest that you may not be completely right for the role.

 

[Deepgreen]

I do think sometimes there is a rush to legislate after incidents like that when in all honesty how many splits took place that week/month/year without a buffer stop collision . As a result you then leave everyone else having to get their head round new prescriptive procedures when in many cases they had been successfully splitting and coupling for years without issue using their own noodle .

The more strictures are imposed, the more it hastens the end of manual driving. By incrementally taking away any self-management and freedom to use common sense, it reduces the point of having a human in the cab at all. Those who act with extreme over-cautiousness may do well to realise that they may be hastening their own roles' demise.

 

[ComUtoR]

But the over cautiousness and strict impositions have come about because of the lack of common sense, lack of self responsibility, overly litigious nature, and quite frankly; those that moan constantly about every single, little, tiny, insignificant thing. Especially when it impact their day by as little as a minute.

So one situation has led to another which will lead to another. It's a set of dominoes falling.

 

[sw1ller]

Does this mean that you refuse to attach two occupied portions anywhere, regardless of rules, timetable, etc., or just at Cannon Street? If you follow rules/guidelines set out for your circumstances I would not expect any legal action arising from any outcome to fall against you. Furthermore, if you refuse to attach without emptying and locking, but the timetable demands a quicker attachment, how would you explain this (presumably on multiple occasions) to your manager?

If your fear of legal reprisals in this way is so strong, I would suggest that you may not be completely right for the role.

Without knowing anything at all about this location and stock .... that’s what local instructions are for.

 

[Ken H]

The more strictures are imposed, the more it hastens the end of manual driving. By incrementally taking away any self-management and freedom to use common sense, it reduces the point of having a human in the cab at all. Those who act with extreme over-cautiousness may do well to realise that they may be hastening their own roles' demise.[/QUOT

I have started a thread about driverless trains because of your point.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-we-have-driverless-trains-on-the-national-network.181364/

 

[37057]

Only 6 weeks late to the party, but could it be that the poster was actually referring to the driver easing up to reduce the tension on the coupler when splitting. It’s not a mandatory procedure to ease up but preferred by fleet!

No need to ease up on a Desiro, the "cam" mechanism seem to be good at uncoupling without the need to ease up (it wouldn't be possible either), as far as I'm aware anyway. When splitting a Desiro, the uncouple button on the desk is held down until the uncouple solenoid energises and directs air to the uncoupling cylinders on both units which disengages the coupling mechanisms. At the same time it "switches off" the drum switch and the cab becomes active allowing the driver to set-back. The motion of the units parting is detected by a proximity switch on the coupler face which retracts the electrical heads and the uncouple solenoid de-energises.

The only time I've come across a non-coupling issue is when the unit had an intermittent traction fault too!

My memory isn't great, but the only time I think I've had to "ease up" has been with a shunt loco and the uncoupling has to be done manually. But even that's rarely needed as they part with ease normally.

 

[Deepgreen]

The actual rules are as much dictated by the TOC policy as anything else. SWR had rules against attaching class 455s with passengers onboard, but Southern used to do it all day every day at Purley.

Train attachments in the UK seem exceptionally safe compared to many other European railways, some of whom seem entirely happy to conduct shunts and attachments with open doors.

Yet another example of non-standardisation of approach arising from privatisation.

 

[Deepgreen]

I have started a thread about driverless trains because of your point.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-we-have-driverless-trains-on-the-national-network.181364/

OK - thanks. I wonder if the opposite question will be posed there - 'Can you attach trains without a driver aboard?'!

 

[pompeyfan]

No need to ease up on a Desiro, the "cam" mechanism seem to be good at uncoupling without the need to ease up (it wouldn't be possible either), as far as I'm aware anyway. When splitting a Desiro, the uncouple button on the desk is held down until the uncouple solenoid energises and directs air to the uncoupling cylinders on both units which disengages the coupling mechanisms. At the same time it "switches off" the drum switch and the cab becomes active allowing the driver to set-back. The motion of the units parting is detected by a proximity switch on the coupler face which retracts the electrical heads and the uncouple solenoid de-energises.

The only time I've come across a non-coupling issue is when the unit had an intermittent traction fault too!

My memory isn't great, but the only time I think I've had to "ease up" has been with a shunt loco and the uncoupling has to be done manually. But even that's rarely needed as they part with ease normally.

Ah very interesting, I can only go by what I have been told by SWT/R drivers and overhearing conversation. I can say for certainty that some drivers do drive forward into the (now) dead unit before reversing as I’ve seen the coupling mechanism compress before the unit then reversed and split.

 

[Val3ntine]

Ah very interesting, I can only go by what I have been told by SWT/R drivers and overhearing conversation. I can say for certainty that some drivers do drive forward into the (now) dead unit before reversing as I’ve seen the coupling mechanism compress before the unit then reversed and split.

Yup mandatory on SWR to ease up before uncoupling a desiro. Could potentially damage the coupler if you just come straight off

 

[ComUtoR]

Yup mandatory on SWR to ease up before uncoupling a desiro. Could potentially damage the coupler if you just come straight off

What type of coupler is it ?

On our Electrostars we just stick it in reverse and set back. They have Delners. Our Networkers have tightlocks and require 'easing up'

 

[Val3ntine]

What type of coupler is it ?

On our Electrostars we just stick it in reverse and set back. They have Delners. Our Networkers have tightlocks and require 'easing up'

Delner aswell. Must be company specific I reckon

 

[ComUtoR]

We don't do a 'push on' test either; with Delners. As far as I know, the procedure was originally from Bombardier. It would be interesting to know how much is TOC specific and how much is from the ROSCOs

 

[Scottychoo]

It is not mandatory on SWR to ease up before uncoupling Desirous!

 

[Val3ntine]

It is not mandatory on SWR to ease up before uncoupling Desirous!

Ah fair enough that’s news to me then. I’m a relatively new driver and I was taught to do this throughout training and it is also written in the traction manual instructions to do this so would have failed my driver final if I did not comply.
Could be belts and braces maybe? I dunno lol

 

[pompeyfan]

Old hands do it their way, company expect new hands to play by the rules maybe? Can’t be causing that many faults otherwise there’d be a well documented TTB