Court Summons Received

[Gracet]

Hi,

I've received a court summons today after replying to the initial letter sent back in January. I haven't heard any correspondence from Southeastern before receiving the summons, is this normal? It's also titled 'notice of new date of hearing' and mentions how the case is being moved to a different court, but I hadn't received a letter before to this one.

I saw on another thread someone was able to pay an settlement on the RPSS page, when I entered my case no it told me 'an out of court settlement cannot be paid', but gave me the number for the prosecutions dept.

Would you advise me to call the prosecution dept and ask again to settle out of court? (I mentioned wanting to do this in my initial letter and followed the advice given in other threads). I'm debating contacting a solicitor as I don't want to potentially jeopardise being able to settle out of court if I say the wrong thing on the call.

Thank you

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

In this reply, I assume that you're not disputing the facts - i.e. you were caught fare dodging, and you are willing to pay to settle. If I'm wrong on this, then please say as that might change the advice we should give you.

You can only settle things out of court if the other side (Southeastern in this case) agree not to prosecute you. So what you need to do is seek their agreement. I think that your plan of phoning them is a good one.

I assume that you're worried about saying the wrong thing because there are other times when you haven't paid the right fare that the railway don't yet know about, and you might mention this to them in a phone call. My apologies if this is a wrong assumption. But even if there are other times when you didn't pay, I still think it's worth trying a phone call: if you end up actually attending at court and having the matter heard by the magistrates, then I don't think that there's anything to stop the prosecution asking you about other occasions then - and having that come out in front of the magistrates would be even worse (the usual disclaimer applies - I am not a lawyer: I may not have understood court procedure: please don't rely on this as advice in that it's just from a random person on the internet). You also probably want to clarify why there seems to be some correspondence missing.

So phone up the prosecutions department: clarify whether there are any letters that you have missed between your response and the one you have received: if the conversation seems to be going well, ask about whether it's possible to settle out of court. Ultimately, the railway won't offer you an out of court settlement - you will need to ask!

 

[Gracet]

Welcome to the forum.

In this reply, I assume that you're not disputing the facts - i.e. you were caught fare dodging, and you are willing to pay to settle. If I'm wrong on this, then please say as that might change the advice we should give you.

You can only settle things out of court if the other side (Southeastern in this case) agree not to prosecute you. So what you need to do is seek their agreement. I think that your plan of phoning them is a good one.

I assume that you're worried about saying the wrong thing because there are other times when you haven't paid the right fare that the railway don't yet know about, and you might mention this to them in a phone call. My apologies if this is a wrong assumption. But even if there are other times when you didn't pay, I still think it's worth trying a phone call: if you end up actually attending at court and having the matter heard by the magistrates, then I don't think that there's anything to stop the prosecution asking you about other occasions then - and having that come out in front of the magistrates would be even worse (the usual disclaimer applies - I am not a lawyer: I may not have understood court procedure: please don't rely on this as advice in that it's just from a random person on the internet). You also probably want to clarify why there seems to be some correspondence missing.

So phone up the prosecutions department: clarify whether there are any letters that you have missed between your response and the one you have received: if the conversation seems to be going well, ask about whether it's possible to settle out of court. Ultimately, the railway won't offer you an out of court settlement - you will need to ask!

Thanks for your help, correct that I didn't dispute the facts in my letter, I stated that I understood and was sorry for my actions and would prefer to pay a fine covering the ticket and admin costs etc.

That wasn't my concern with calling them, it's the possibility of them rejecting my offer to settle out of court and that decision possibly being final/ having a negative effect on my case.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

That wasn't my concern with calling them, it's the possibility of them rejecting my offer to settle out of court and that decision possibly being final/ having a negative effect on my case.

Sorry for misunderstanding where you were coming from!

As I say, I am not a lawyer, but I don't see how a failure to agree an out of court settlement could have an impact if the matter went to court. The court will consider whether you broke the law when you made your train trip: discussions that you (the defendant) had some months later with Southeastern (the prosecution) won't affect what you did back then, so aren't any business of the court. If nothing else, you have a right to have your case heard and for the court to decide (a) if you are guilty and (b) if so, what punishment you would face. I would expect a court to take a dim view of the railway looking for a heavier punishment just because you are exercising your rights.

What it boils down to is that I think that you have nothing to lose by talking to Southeastern. You may be able to agree a settlement - but if you can't, I don't see any way that you will have made things worse.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry for misunderstanding where you were coming from!

As I say, I am not a lawyer, but I don't see how a failure to agree an out of court settlement could have an impact if the matter went to court. The court will consider whether you broke the law when you made your train trip: discussions that you (the defendant) had some months later with Southeastern (the prosecution) won't affect what you did back then, so aren't any business of the court. If nothing else, you have a right to have your case heard and for the court to decide (a) if you are guilty and (b) if so, what punishment you would face. I would expect a court to take a dim view of the railway looking for a heavier punishment just because you are exercising your rights.

What it boils down to is that I think that you have nothing to lose by talking to Southeastern. You may be able to agree a settlement - but if you can't, I don't see any way that you will have made things worse.

and even if the OP is turned down for a settlement by phone, it's not impossible that should the OP then write asking again for a settlement , it may yet be granted, and if not it is back to the scenario with the court that you have outlined for the OP.

 

[Gracet]

Hi,

Thanks for both of your replies.

I called the number given as their 'prosecutions dept', they said there was a letter sent out previous to the one I received today, but that it stated the same as this (court date only, nothing about a settlement). They advised that I can write to Southeastern to ask for a settlement but that this can't be done over the phone.. not sure how this has been possible for other people?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,

Thanks for both of your replies.

I called the number given as their 'prosecutions dept', they said there was a letter sent out previous to the one I received today, but that it stated the same as this (court date only, nothing about a settlement). They advised that I can write to Southeastern to ask for a settlement but that this can't be done over the phone.. not sure how this has been possible for other people?

Different train companies use different organisations for this sort or thing and some do it in house - so when you say you saw on another thread it may not have related to SouthEastern so they may have been prepared to deal over the phone. It can be Kafkaesque it seems.

But in any case you probably now need to write ASAP. IMHO writing can be better as you have a record of what is said in any case. Other threads have examples of what to put but generally

Be brief, apologize, make it clear you will not be doing it again as you have learned your lesson (and don't break that promise), offer to settle

see this recent one:
esp posts #5 and #8

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