• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

Status
Not open for further replies.

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
7,043
Don't listen to the Jeremy Whine program on Radio 2 at the moment.

It isn't being presented by Jeremy Whine because he has COVID.

But the item being discussed right now is "Do you have a summer COVID dilemma?"

ie. As COVID is "on the rise" are you going to isolate before you visit granny (in case you murder her by giving her COVID) and are you worried by going to all these summer events (weddings, family gatherings, festivals, crowded holiday beaches.... etc etc.)

Oh for heaven's sake, isn't it time to move on now?

I presume the media will compensate any businesses or events who lose money this summer as a result of their blatant attempts to whip up panic for selfish reasons? Thought not.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,254
Location
Yorkshire
I present a radio programme and we do a health phone in on then. heard some awful stories regarding those in the clinically extremely vulnerable group. Stories to make you weep.

That's all well and good, but are these stories balanced against "awful stories" for those with other illnesses such as flu etc? Do "awful stories" not exist for any ailment or is it only Covid which has such tales to tell?

But it's not just picking up the Sars-CoV-2 virus, there are any number of pathogens that could cause similar and, in many cases, worse outcomes. Concentrating on one is downright dangerous and counter productive. This is the point we're all trying to make but you fail to see every time that this isn't the only pathogen around. To be focusing solely on that is likely to be putting you at more risk.

Agreed. One may also consider it something of a media "bias"
 

Class 33

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2009
Messages
2,362
I posted this on the support group conversation.

It really is a complete load of ********.

I can't help wondering if the person who wrote this has got shares in Marks & Spencer or Calvin Klein, hoping that were are all going to cack ourselves, and consequently have to rush out and buy some more underwear. :D

It is prudent that we should learn the lessons from COVID-19 and consider how we can do things better in the future. In particular, countries should notify the WHO as soon as a new disease appears, and not cover it up for several months, like China almost certainly did with COVID.

But constantly scaremongering people with this nonsense is not going to achieve anything, except cause needless anxiety in certain sections of the population.

Missing your(and a number of other members) helpful comments in the support group conversation! It's all been split down to several smaller groups now, and is much less active than it was.

To add further to this posting though, rather than just say the above. Yes it's disgusting the press and media STILL fear mongering about Covid, and other diseases/pandemics that may or may not even happen. Sky News seem to be the worst offenders for this. Give it up and and move on from this!
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,624
Location
First Class
The format, as I recall as I've not watched it in a while, was always what was the main story that got the most complaints in the last week and what was the nature of those complaints (usually including verbatim extracts from the complainant) a relevant bod (such editor who oversaw the story) would give a response/explanation as to why they covered the story in the way they did or said/did whatever it was that caused the complaints. That was the bulk of the programme and then a smattering of other complaints about other stories given similar treatment.

I appreciate that a lot of people around here are very wound up about the media and Covid (and indeed Covid in general still) and disagree with the coverage most strongly. Though I fear you'll be waiting a long time for "corrections" as I'm far from convinced that the matter is a black and white as you all believe it to be. Then again I remain puzzled by why you're all so wound up about it still. Join the rest of us who have moved on from Covid and are enjoying life again. Ironically the place I hear about "rising infections" or "scary new diseases" or "will we need to have winter restrictions" or similar isn't the media or twitter it's right here on this thread! :lol:

Having a little scroll through BBC News right now and there doesn't appear to be any Covid or other "scare" stories on their front page. Sky News do appear to have a couple one is "COVID an 'inconvenience' rather than 'life-threatening' for many now, says WHO" and another explaining a bit more about Polio. None of this is exactly the media trying to whip people into a frenzy of Covid or other virus related terror...

All that being said, in general terms, I do think that the media should do a better job of issuing corrections or retractions. To take newspapers for instance I've long thought that any correction/retraction should be published in the same part of the newspaper and with the same prominence as the original story. If you're correcting a headline which was on the front page in size 72 font then the correction should be published on the front page in size 72 font! If it was on page 32 in size 12 font then stick it on page 32. Similar should apply to the TV and radio news (i.e. if it was item 1 on the six o'clock news that needs correcting then the correction will run as item 1 on the next six o'clock news!).

I agree with you (and @cuccir) and personally I don’t get particularly wound up by the hysterical nonsense spouted by the usual suspects. At the same time however I don’t feel as though I can be complacent in regard to restrictions never returning. There are people out there in positions of influence who seem very keen on the idea!
 

102 fan

Member
Joined
14 May 2007
Messages
769
Well, if i get symptoms i will test. Rather than going into work or going on a bus as i know how devastating it can be to someone with a compromised immuned system, i am one myself.

Prior to 2019, did you do any of that?
 

philosopher

Established Member
Joined
23 Sep 2015
Messages
1,349
What has surprises me at the moment is that there are a number of people who are still not doing certain activities because of Covid, such as socialising indoors, usually citing that they are immunocompromised or they live with someone who is.
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,404
Location
Ely
I agree with you (and @cuccir) and personally I don’t get particularly wound up by the hysterical nonsense spouted by the usual suspects. At the same time however I don’t feel as though I can be complacent in regard to restrictions never returning. There are people out there in positions of influence who seem very keen on the idea!

Well, yes, not least because there are clearly people (and specifically people who should know better) who are keen to bring back useless restrictions at the first opportunity, for example this today at hospitals near me:

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...n-peterborough-hospitals-masks-covid-24338902
Huntingdon and Peterborough hospitals bring back face masks due to rise in Covid cases

Hospitals in Cambridgeshire will be re-instating masks from today, June 28, due to the rise in Covid cases. The reintroduction will apply to both Peterborough City Hospital and Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Huntingdon.
...
Covid cases in Peterborough saw a 100 per cent increase over the past week with ten cases reported up to June 22. Huntingdon also saw an increase of 14 cases, but both still remained below the average in England.

Wow, 24 cases in a week, across hundreds of thousands of people! So let's bring back something that achieves nothing and has massive downsides!

As I've said before, does this really inspire confidence in the treatment you would receive at these hospitals, if they think this is 'needed'? What else are they getting wrong? They may as well start applying leeches to people.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,764
Location
Yorkshire
Don't comply; they cannot refuse treatment and there is no legal requirement. Simply say "I am exempt" to avoid a potential argument with a jobsworth who distrusts vaccines.
 

Mikw

Member
Joined
20 Apr 2022
Messages
412
Location
Leicester
I've got infusion treatment on Friday, but have been told it might be cancelled as all 6 ward staff have got Covid.

There aren't enough staff left to administer this week's clinic as it stands.

Must be a bad outbreak as it wasn't even cancelled during the first wave back in 2020.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,764
Location
Yorkshire
Pretty much the entire population is currently being exposed to the latest iteration of the virus, which has evolved to become even fitter and more adapted to humans. The proportion of people being properly ill has dropped off a cliff.

Given how much it's going round at the moment, I am pretty sure I had it last week; I definitely had a virus of some sort but I don't do antigen tests, so cannot be certain.

This "wave" of infections is not a bad thing at all; we are boosting our population immunity at the best possible time of year, as we edge towards endemic equilibrium.

We will be living with the virus indefinitely and it will continue to adapt for humans and our immunity will continue to increase; further "waves" will occur as part of a natural process which is entirely expected and cannot be stopped.

This is not without precedent; we had 4 previous Coronavirus pandemics, the most recent of which might have been OC43 in 1889, though we will never know for certain.
 

davews

Member
Joined
24 Apr 2021
Messages
650
Location
Bracknell
I watched the clip of Jeremy Vine last night where he was advocating face masks and everything from his 'sick bed'. It looked decidedly staged and all for show, I don't think he was particularly poorly. Almost a comedy sketch. (amusingly called Jeremy Whine on Dan Wooton, GB News).
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,042
Location
Dundee
I watched the clip of Jeremy Vine last night where he was advocating face masks and everything from his 'sick bed'. It looked decidedly staged and all for show, I don't think he was particularly poorly. Almost a comedy sketch. (amusingly called Jeremy Whine on Dan Wooton, GB News).

It doesn’t surprise me, I did catch some of the comments on Twitter and most were that of him to go bug off…
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,764
Location
Yorkshire
Away from the petulant, irrational world of Jeremy Vine, Dr John Campbell speaks far more sense in his latest update.

0:09
99% of secondary age children in the uk

0:13
have antibodies

0:14
for sars coronavirus 2

0:17
and i really think the implications for

0:19
reviewing the vaccine policy are there

0:21
as a result of this data we'll also be

0:24
looking at increasing infections largely

0:26
driven by ba5 variant

0:28
but thankfully falling numbers of deaths

0:31
at the moment so

0:32
this is the trend we've been hoping for

0:34
or expected to see increasing number of

0:37
infections which aren't necessarily that

0:39
bad a minority are but decreasing

0:42
numbers of deaths

0:44
the proviso there is there's always a

0:46
lag of course so we could still see

0:48
deaths increasing a little bit but

0:50
nothing like what they have been in the

0:52
previous peaks

0:54
and if time allows i'll tell you what

0:56
you and i are most likely to die from

0:59
now um

1:01
we're looking at the leading causes of

1:03
death

17:34
so there we go pandemic wise well

17:36
heading into endemicity as far as i can

17:39
see

17:40
government guidelines still basically a

17:42
lot of them orientated around the

17:44
previous emergency situations we've been

17:46
in

17:47
time to come up to date i would have

17:48
thought
John Campbell has been absolutely spot on for quite some time; when Omicron was first reported from South Africa, some people refused to believe the South Africans (I believe this was partly down to xenophobia in some cases) but John Campbell gave plenty of evidence against the scaremongering that certain people in the UK were engaging in at the time, and things are panning out in line with John Campbell's predictions, with huge numbers of exposures to Sars-CoV-2 but tiny proportions of those becoming deaths.

Most deaths with Sars-CoV-2 are incidental and not from Sars-CoV-2 and the same is true of hospital admissions.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
7,043
I've got infusion treatment on Friday, but have been told it might be cancelled as all 6 ward staff have got Covid.

There aren't enough staff left to administer this week's clinic as it stands.

Must be a bad outbreak as it wasn't even cancelled during the first wave back in 2020.

Is it perhaps the case now that this sort of action (cancellation of medical appointments due to Covid positive tests) might now, in summer 2022, might actually cause more serious illness and death than it saves? I don't know, but it's something to think about, certainly.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
I seem some French government ministers are "recommending" that face nappies be worn on public transport in France again due to the rise in COVID cases.

They are not "currently" proposing to make them mandatory.

I can understand why it is squeaky bum time for certain governments and authorities, because the current increase in COVID cases reignites fears of what happened in the past.

But like all other "waves" of COVID, this current one will come to an end, probably in just a few weeks time, and it is undoubtedly better for this to be happening during the summer than during the autumn or winter.

Now should be the time for governments, and people in general, to hold their nerve, and not be panicked into reintroducing restrictions.

"Living with COVID" means accepting that there will be "waves" of cases from time to time.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
7,043
But like all other "waves" of COVID, this current one will come to an end, probably in just a few weeks time, and it is undoubtedly better for this to be happening during the summer than during the autumn or winter.

Now should be the time for governments, and people in general, to hold their nerve, and not be panicked into reintroducing restrictions.

"Living with COVID" means accepting that there will be "waves" of cases from time to time.

Exactly. And living with Covid does not mean trashing the economy every few months by instilling fear into people. The last thing the world wants right now is more unnecessary economic damage.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,764
Location
Yorkshire
Is it perhaps the case now that this sort of action (cancellation of medical appointments due to Covid positive tests) might now, in summer 2022, might actually cause more serious illness and death than it saves? I don't know, but it's something to think about, certainly.
Absolutely; I believe this was the case once the vaccines had been widely available, many many months ago, but anyone claiming it still makes sense to do this now is clearly either utterly bonkers or not looking at the actual facts and the bigger picture.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,161
I seem some French government ministers are "recommending" that face nappies be worn on public transport in France again due to the rise in COVID cases.

They are not "currently" proposing to make them mandatory.

I can understand why it is squeaky bum time for certain governments and authorities, because the current increase in COVID cases reignites fears of what happened in the past.

But like all other "waves" of COVID, this current one will come to an end, probably in just a few weeks time, and it is undoubtedly better for this to be happening during the summer than during the autumn or winter.

Now should be the time for governments, and people in general, to hold their nerve, and not be panicked into reintroducing restrictions.

"Living with COVID" means accepting that there will be "waves" of cases from time to time.

Exactly. And living with Covid does not mean trashing the economy every few months by instilling fear into people. The last thing the world wants right now is more unnecessary economic damage.
Completely agree
 

GC class B1

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2021
Messages
447
Location
East midlands
It appears to me that those advocating restrictions are using knowledge of ongoing variants that wasn’t available in previous pandemics as evidence that Covid is continuing to be a risk. It is possible that spanish flu and other pandemics did exactly the same as covid but because the knowledge of ongoing variants wasn’t available at the time it was concluded that the pandemic had passEd and the virus was endemic. These ongoing variants were lived with at the time (and may be still occurring as new colds and flu emerge all the time) and covid therefore should be treated the same and life continue as normal. Anything else is scaremongering.
 

Mikw

Member
Joined
20 Apr 2022
Messages
412
Location
Leicester
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,404
Location
Ely
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.

Given they have now been very clearly shown in literally thousands of real-world experiments over the last two years not to achieve anything, and also to have many negatives, is there any particular reason for taking this position?
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
2,656
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.

I would have a read of this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/johndefeo/status/1535985423318716418 (it contains lots of images and videos so I cannot replicate here).

Bascially they are purely a placebo to placate people, and don't actually realistically make a difference.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,161
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.
If face coverings/masks are so important could you explain why case rates rose after they were mandated and fell after the mandate stopped? I will concede that FFP3 masks IF worn, stored AND handled properly may help protect the wearer, but I have seen no real world evidence that a lot of the face coverings are anything more than a placebo.
 

Dent

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2015
Messages
1,109
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.
Face coverings may be tolerable in some settings if there is a good reason to wear them, but what good reason is there at this stage?

Your immune system needs exposure to various pathogens to remain healthy, if wearing a face covering does reduce your exposure then all that will achieve is weakening your immune system so that you are more vulnerable when you stop wearing one. At a population level, if people artificially reduce their exposure now then it will disrupt the endemic equilibrium and lead to more infections later. Given that we are already heading into Summer, forcing an artificial dip in infections now will result in the corresponding artificial peak being during Autumn/Winter, when health services are already most under strain. Why is any of this in any way desirable?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,764
Location
Yorkshire
It appears to me that those advocating restrictions are using knowledge of ongoing variants that wasn’t available in previous pandemics as evidence that Covid is continuing to be a risk. It is possible that spanish flu and other pandemics did exactly the same as covid but because the knowledge of ongoing variants wasn’t available at the time it was concluded that the pandemic had passEd and the virus was endemic. These ongoing variants were lived with at the time (and may be still occurring as new colds and flu emerge all the time) and covid therefore should be treated the same and life continue as normal. Anything else is scaremongering.
Absolutely; when a virus jumps species it will take time for it to adapt to that species through natural selection to increase its fitness for the new host.
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.
That's fine; anyone who either distrusts vaccines or who doesn't believe vaccines are sufficient, or whatever it is they believe, is welcome to wear one if they want.

Anyone can choose to wear a highly effective tight fitting FFP2/3 respirator which - when correctly worn/stored/handled/replaced provides excellent protection against virus transmission; it then makes absolutely no difference what other people wear.

Of course people could alternatively wear flimsy, loose fitting face coverings if they choose to do so, but these are not designed for the purpose of preventing virus transmission.

I personally am very pleased to see the vast majority of people trusting the vaccines and their immune systems by not wearing a mask but if anyone wishes to wear one that is their prerogative.
 

GC class B1

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2021
Messages
447
Location
East midlands
I have noticed with some concern that more people are now wearing surgical and cloth masks. The fearmongering of the press and others seems to be having an effect.
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,042
Location
Dundee
I have noticed with some concern that more people are now wearing surgical and cloth masks. The fearmongering of the press and others seems to be having an effect.

That’s one thing that does surprise is how people still believe the media are telling the truth? I said this elsewhere but it is ironic you have people in studios distanced out but no masks or those in parliament didn’t wear one until 6 months ago?

Seems to me media are trying to control the narrative, but I believe that those people that are still holding onto every word media say the penny will eventually drop (just a matter of time).
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,726
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
I wouldn't advocate lockdowns, and i don't think anyone actually is, but wouldn't have a problem with proper facecoverings at all.
I trust of course you will be using them properly, washing your hands before applying, replacing them if you touch them, get them wet, & every few hours. Also that you will have them properly fitted to your face, avoid having facial hair & of course dispose of them properly, i.e. in medical waste and not just in the normal waste.

If you do, you should also then understand why it is not reasonable to expect anyone else to wear them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top