"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

duncanp

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As far as I'm aware, if OAS does become an issue, there's little or nothing we can do about it. Another round of vaccines won't help, even if 'tweaked' for a new variant.

And another round of lockdowns or restrictions won't help either, but no soubt some people will try and bounce the government into implementing some measures.

The most that might happen is measures similiar to what happened in Sweden, but things would have to be really bad for that to happen.

The economy and people's mental health just can't take any more.

This is what happened in the late 1940s, when people grew tired of post war austerity, even if they originally accepted it was necessary.
 
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MikeWM

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But at the time there was little rhyme nor reason to those unlucky people who would be severely affected by the virus.

There are always outliers and unexpected things, but the main risk factors - age, ill health, obesity, vitamin D deficiency - were known about by April 2020. For example, we had a perfect case study with the Diamond Princess.

I've not heard of many cases of otherwise healthy young people being affected by COVID recently, so maybe it's time to stop worrying about them and looking at a long term vaccination programme for those who are now vulnerable.

The problem is that if OAS becomes an issue with a future variant then sticking more vaccinations in people won't achieve anything whatever. The immune system can't be 'untaught', that's exactly what OAS is.
 

kez19

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How do they know over 1 million have it? Guesswork as doubt those people have all tested for it? Obviously isn't an issue in cold light if day is it, just media again trying to make something of it. Yawn!

Should we be that surprised by the media? Let’s have a rundown of other viruses/diseases out there daily/weekly then? (aiming this at media here), but of course it doesn’t interest them.

One thing that interests me “scientist tells Sky News” .. did they contact them or did Sky approach them?
 

yorksrob

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There are always outliers and unexpected things, but the main risk factors - age, ill health, obesity, vitamin D deficiency - were known about by April 2020. For example, we had a perfect case study with the Diamond Princess.



The problem is that if OAS becomes an issue with a future variant then sticking more vaccinations in people won't achieve anything whatever. The immune system can't be 'untaught', that's exactly what OAS is.

Well it's one of those things. We have vaccination for plenty of other viruses, so the human immune system has got around OAS for those, it will most likely do for this one as well.
 

MikeWM

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And another round of lockdowns or restrictions won't help either, but no soubt some people will try and bounce the government into implementing some measures.

The most that might happen is measures similiar to what happened in Sweden, but things would have to be really bad for that to happen.

The economy and people's mental health just can't take any more.

This is what happened in the late 1940s, when people grew tired of post war austerity, even if they originally accepted it was necessary.

Agree entirely - I implied something similar in post #164 above, but this sums it up nicely.
 

kez19

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How is this news ? It would be more surprising if everyone's immune system reacted exactly the same, whatever their infection and vaccine history.

Exactly but isn’t that science here? I might react differently to you but you might react differently to something else? To me it’s dumbed down media (you can’t tell me that those in the media and these scientists are playing dumb here?, if so it’s embarrassing!)

And another round of lockdowns or restrictions won't help either, but no soubt some people will try and bounce the government into implementing some measures.

The most that might happen is measures similiar to what happened in Sweden, but things would have to be really bad for that to happen.

The economy and people's mental health just can't take any more.

This is what happened in the late 1940s, when people grew tired of post war austerity, even if they originally accepted it was necessary.

You mentioned Sweden but mind the media mocked them and some still do, I’m still waiting on that apology from media in particular on that but of course swept under
 

ainsworth74

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'Covid makes a comeback: Cases jump 40% in a week in England with 1.1million infected'


At no point do they mention severity of symptoms. Scaremongering again.
The Mail? Sensationalising? Say it ain't so! :lol:

I caught a snippet of Hugh Pym on BBC News earlier and he seemed to be giving a much more measured update in that yes numbers of infections are rising but the number of ICU cases remains very low (200 I think he said?) so there's no concern there. Also made the point that whilst vaccines seem to be fairly ineffective at preventing infections they remain excellent at preventing serious illness (hence the low ICU numbers).
 

Mikw

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I think regarding lockdowns many are unaware of "Better care together" - it was a government plan to close hospitals in town where there more than one with the focus being put on more care at home.

This had already kicked in before the pandemic where wards were mothballed, and hospitals were selling their land.

The hospital i used to volunteer in had already shed about 50 percent of it's ITU beds for example.

So the capacirty was quickly overwhelmed in the first few waves of Covid, so that was one of the reasons for the lockdown, and why so many Covid patients were discharged into care homes for example
 

Howardh

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Can anyone clarify this for me, during the first lockdown there were several "Nightingdale" hospitals set up, although not necessarily staffed(!) were they dismantled after the first lockdown, or did they hang around for the second/third ones and if so, were they ever used?


With hindsight (first wave) those places would have been ideal to send discharged elderly before they returned to their care homes - if there were the staff/carers available. Another question, if an elderly patient had been discharged, they wouldn't have been able to go to their family home (covid restrictions) if the families volunteered to look after them; they just went back to their care home - thus adding to staff pressure.
 

ainsworth74

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Can anyone clarify this for me, during the first lockdown there were several "Nightingdale" hospitals set up, although not necessarily staffed(!) were they dismantled after the first lockdown, or did they hang around for the second/third ones and if so, were they ever used?
I got my first and second jab at the Sunderland one which means it must have lasted into summer 2021 so it got some use just not necessarily what it was intended for!
 

Busaholic

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Can anyone clarify this for me, during the first lockdown there were several "Nightingdale" hospitals set up, although not necessarily staffed(!) were they dismantled after the first lockdown, or did they hang around for the second/third ones and if so, were they ever used?
The NHS Nightingale Hospital in Exeter says it's recruiting 'now', but I believe specialist services from different Devon Health Trusts have been relocated there, services which, in the main, are not offered to Cornwall residents in any unified form.
 

DelayRepay

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I was a bit surprised to see a new vaccination centre has opened near me. The old one closed down as the owners of the building wanted it back for re-development.

Does the booster programme really justify renting out a shop? Can't existing NHS infrastructure handle the remaining work? I guess the Covid centres could be used to deal with flu jabs too to take some work away from the GP surgeries. Just doesn't seem the best use of limited NHS resources to me.
 

johntea

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Can anyone clarify this for me, during the first lockdown there were several "Nightingdale" hospitals set up, although not necessarily staffed(!) were they dismantled after the first lockdown, or did they hang around for the second/third ones and if so, were they ever used?


With hindsight (first wave) those places would have been ideal to send discharged elderly before they returned to their care homes - if there were the staff/carers available. Another question, if an elderly patient had been discharged, they wouldn't have been able to go to their family home (covid restrictions) if the families volunteered to look after them; they just went back to their care home - thus adding to staff pressure.

Most including one I was involved in closed down roughly a year after being knocked up (so March / April 2021) and never treated a single Covid patient although some did have a brief period of use for some other services such as diagnostic services and vaccinations, but as many were housed in leisure / conference centres the original owners obviously wanted them back after a while to get their business going again!

From an engineering point of view they were quite an impressive (ialthough rather expensive!) achievement, but there was never going to be a suitable level of medical staffing to run them (I seem to remember the idea of just 'borrowing' staff from local hospitals to do so if the need came up at one point but the issue there was local hospitals had already pretty much cancelled routine appointments and were already fully concentrating on Covid so you would essentially just have been robbing Peter to pay Paul there!)
 

FGW_Lad

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Well without much fanfare today the hospital I work at has dropped the requirement for masks for staff / patients / visitors apart from a handful of specific wards (or if a member of staff is transporting around a Covid positive patient for example) so that is pleasing

I still have the ridiculous looking goggles they gave to every member of staff in my drawer at work actually, and who could forget those ridiculous face shields!
We have dropped the mandate too at our hospital apart from the same requirements as you mention on certain wards so assume it is was an update to NHS England guidance. Have to say I am absolutely ecstatic not to have to wear the damn things anymore!
 

RPI

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Why are people even still testing? On Facebook you still see people posting their LFT results, some people literally want it to go on for ever.
 

ainsworth74

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Why are people even still testing? On Facebook you still see people posting their LFT results, some people literally want it to go on for ever.
Not a clue! I've got a colleague who is doing it religiously, I've never bothered asking why but it's struck me as odd. Another was all in a flutter because someone they had a meal with tested positive and wanted to run out in the middle of the day and buy a test.

Personally I was willing to when relevant (such as if I had symptoms) but since they had to be paid for I've not taken one. If the government don't consider it serious enough to make it available for free then I ain't spending money on it.
 

yorkie

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Up again, with Jubilee celebrations (that we were actively encouraged to join) being cited as a reason, along with the latest sub-variants:

They talk nonsense; it's nothing to do with the Jubilee. It's the virus improving its fitness, in line with expectations.
How is this news ? It would be more surprising if everyone's immune system reacted exactly the same, whatever their infection and vaccine history.
It's not news; several of us on this forum could have pointed this out; it's obvious.

They need to use up some of the test kits they stock piled in Feb/March ;)
Some hard left academic types (the sort who never have worked in a proper job ;)) hoarded hundreds of the things; some were boasting about it. My views on this matter can be found in the thread regarding the environmental impact!

Why are people even still testing? On Facebook you still see people posting their LFT results, some people literally want it to go on for ever.
Some people have been frightened into it, some have been mislead, some are pressured into it, but the ones driving it are the hard left; often these people are also pro-mask activists, and some academics who wouldn't cut it in the real world of work. They refuse to accept that the vaccines are the path to normality.

I might have it now; since yesterday evening I've got a slight sore throat and a very slight 'headache' (not really a headache but doesn't feel 100% right) but it's very minor, as with all the 'colds' I've had for the past 14 years. I'm not testing because it's pointless to do so in my opinion. However if I was offered an antibody test I'd be up for that; out of curiosity, if nothing else.

At no point do they mention severity of symptoms. Scaremongering again.
If they admitted the vast majority of cases are either very mild or asymptomatic, they would be admitting that it's not newsworthy and also that information may reduce the proportion of their readers who would be susceptible to such clickbait in future.

In other words, it doesn't suit their narrative.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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The Government clearly isn't as worried as the media are - from 1st July, the virus statistics will only be reported weekly, not daily from Monday to Friday. One step closer to abolition altogether, I hope.
 

Mikw

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They talk nonsense; it's nothing to do with the Jubilee. It's the virus improving its fitness, in line with expectations.

It's not news; several of us on this forum could have pointed this out; it's obvious.


Some hard left academic types (the sort who never have worked in a proper job ;)) hoarded hundreds of the things; some were boasting about it. My views on this matter can be found in the thread regarding the environmental impact!


Some people have been frightened into it, some have been mislead, some are pressured into it, but the ones driving it are the hard left; often these people are also pro-mask activists, and some academics who wouldn't cut it in the real world of work. They refuse to accept that the vaccines are the path to normality.

I might have it now; since yesterday evening I've got a slight sore throat and a very slight 'headache' (not really a headache but doesn't feel 100% right) but it's very minor, as with all the 'colds' I've had for the past 14 years. I'm not testing because it's pointless to do so in my opinion. However if I was offered an antibody test I'd be up for that; out of curiosity, if nothing else.


If they admitted the vast majority of cases are either very mild or asymptomatic, they would be admitting that it's not newsworthy and also that information may reduce the proportion of their readers who would be susceptible to such clickbait in future.

In other words, it doesn't suit their narrative.
If you have it i hope you don't mix with anybody with a critically damaged immune system.
 

Richard Scott

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If you have it i hope you don't mix with anybody with a critically damaged immune system.
If their immune system is that damaged they shouldn't be mixing with anyone as any pathogen passed on could cause them issues. Sorry to be bearer of bad news but this isn't the only virus circulating!
 

yorkie

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If you have it i hope you don't mix with anybody with a critically damaged immune system.
Why? Everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 multiple times in our lifetimes, along with many other viruses.

Anyone who distrusts the vaccines could delay (not prevent) their exposure by wearing a highly effective tight fitting FFP3 mask whenever they are in proximity to any other person (this would need to include anyone they live with and would rule out dentistry work among other things) and stay at home as much as possible. That is their prerogative and I am not preventing anyone doing that.
 

Mikw

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Why? Everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 multiple times in their lifetimes, along with many other viruses.
Why? I would have thought the answer was fairly obvious. Would you walk into an old people's home with flu?

There's a lot of immunocompromised people out there who can be severely affected by any virus. So if you know you're carrying one, or suspecting you have, then it's a good idea to find out.
 

yorkie

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Why? I would have thought the answer was fairly obvious. Would you walk into an old people's home with flu?
How would I know if I am infected with influenza?
There's a lot of immunocompromised people out there who can be severely affected by any virus. So if you know you're carrying one, or suspecting you have, then it's a good idea to find out.
You want me to carry out daily testing for all known viruses?

What do you think the environmental impact of this would be if everyone does that?

Do you want everyone in the world to do this, or just people in certain countries?
 

Mikw

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If their immune system is that damaged they shouldn't be mixing with anyone as any pathogen passed on could cause them issues. Sorry to be bearer of bad news but this isn't the only virus circulating!
Yes, you know that, and i know that, but many people with conditions like that still have to work and have to mix with people and commuters.

Surely it's good sense if you know you're carrying a transmissable virus not to spread it around?
 

yorkie

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Yes, you know that, and i know that, but many people with conditions like that still have to work and have to mix with people and commuters.
If they mix with people they will be exposed to all commonly circulating viruses and will be generating immunity to those viruses.
Surely it's good sense if you know you're carrying a transmissable virus not to spread it around?
How would anyone know they are infected with a virus?

We are all constantly being exposed to viruses; most of the time the exposure does not work in an infection. Those times when an infection does occur, the immune system usually gets on top of it pretty quickly. Many infections of many common viruses are asymptomatic or lead to mild symptoms.

Do you propose that everyone tests every day for all common viruses? How much do you think this would cost? What would it achieve?
 

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