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Covid Specials: could they call at Wembley?

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iknowyeah

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Man City played Spurs yesterday in the Carabao and Avanti put two trains on for City fans travelling from Manchester.

It seemed bizarre putting them in a bubble and providing negative test results when they were forced to travel from Watford or Euston to the stadium on public transport.

Why didn't the specials stop at Wembley Central or charter diesels to Wembley Stadium if the government are so hot on these test events?
 
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Surreytraveller

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Man City played Spurs yesterday in the Carabao and Avanti put two trains on for City fans travelling from Manchester. Seemed bizarre putting them in a bubble and providinf negative test results when they were forced to travel from Watford or Euston to tje stadium on public transport. Why didn't the specials stop at Wembley Central or charter diesels to Wembley Stadium if the government are so hot on these test events?
Presumably it takes a while for someone to actually become infectious after coming into contact with the virus themselves, and the incidence of the virus is very low at the moment, so the risks are minimal
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Stopping the Avanti specials at Wembley Central was probably in the “too difficult” category, after all it would have meant a huge diversion . Quietly overlook the use of the Overground and everyone is seen to be “playing their part” as has been a theme throughout the pandemic - do as you are told and don’t question anything.
 

Bantamzen

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Man City played Spurs yesterday in the Carabao and Avanti put two trains on for City fans travelling from Manchester.

It seemed bizarre putting them in a bubble and providing negative test results when they were forced to travel from Watford or Euston to the stadium on public transport.

Why didn't the specials stop at Wembley Central or charter diesels to Wembley Stadium if the government are so hot on these test events?
Because covid doesn't use Oyster or contactless? ;)

Seriously though, there are so many weird #covidsafe decisions being made, this one doesn't even make the top 25. As you say after all the testing, bubbling and whatever other hoops people had to jump through, to then tip them out at other stations to make their own way there seems just daft. Hopefully people in charge of these kind of things will also eventually reach the same conclusion and drop the madness.
 

Ianno87

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Stopping the Avanti specials at Wembley Central was probably in the “too difficult” category, after all it would have meant a huge diversion . Quietly overlook the use of the Overground and everyone is seen to be “playing their part” as has been a theme throughout the pandemic - do as you are told and don’t question anything.

Wembley Stadium would have been a diversion, Wembley Central is on the WCML. The problem there would be the narrow (and short) platforms, which ironically would've been terrible for social distancing (but probably better than heading via Euston)
 

AlterEgo

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Stopping the Avanti specials at Wembley Central was probably in the “too difficult” category, after all it would have meant a huge diversion . Quietly overlook the use of the Overground and everyone is seen to be “playing their part” as has been a theme throughout the pandemic - do as you are told and don’t question anything.
It really was a pointless exercise, wasn't it?
 

cuccir

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The point of these 'test events' is that outside of the arena people travel and behave normally, so that any effects of the event can be measured in advance of removal of restrictions in June. So bubbling them all onto a train would undermine that as the researchers want to see the impact on the location around the site as well as on those who attended.
 

roversfan2001

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The point of these 'test events' is that outside of the arena people travel and behave normally, so that any effects of the event can be measured in advance of removal of restrictions in June. So bubbling them all onto a train would undermine that as the researchers want to see the impact on the location around the site as well as on those who attended.
They were bubbled onto trains to either Watford Junction or Euston. Those who didn't get the charter train either got put on coaches or had to make their own way there by car.

It was an entirely pointless '#covidsafe' exercise as those who went by train had to make the rest of the journey on normal public transport. Either everyone should have been allowed to make their own way there as they saw fit (ie normal) or everyone should have been bussed in on coaches with mandatory masks and social distancing (the weird dystopial new normal some people wish to have).

Don't even get me started on the ridiculously low crowd number and the insistence on masks.#

Luckily, being a Blackburn fan, I won't ever have to worry about Covid-safe travel to cup finals. :lol:
 

cuccir

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It was an entirely pointless '#covidsafe' exercise as those who went by train had to make the rest of the journey on normal public transport
They were bubbled onto trains to either Watford Junction or Euston. Those who didn't get the charter train either got put on coaches or had to make their own way there by car

I'm sorry but that was the point! The idea is that by having people on the tube, going to local pubs etc you can start to get data on whether there were local spikes etc from that sort of transmission. And isn't that travel pattern the norm for cup finals - some fans are on charters, some get there themselves? I suppose a charter train is always a fans-only bubble, we just haven't called it that in the past

In terms of the travel, this is specifically being monitored:

Monitoring people travelling to and from events

All attendees at pilot events will be subject to scientifically and ethically designed pre- and post-event monitoring, which they will agree to when signing up to attend the event.

The majority of attendees who attend the ERP events will be local to the venue. However attendees with valid ERP tickets can travel to the event in line with HMG guidance.

Note that the monitoring is being done because the data is forming part of a surveyed trial; I'm sure none of us would find this monitoring acceptable if it formed part of the plans for running events post-covid, but I don't see that in the plans.

Don't even get me started on the ridiculously low crowd number and the insistence on masks.#
The intention is to build up to much bigger events with no masks. To quote the guidance on these events:

some of the pilots in the ERP will be testing non-social distancing and the safety risk associated with the relaxation of NPIs.

NPIs = "non-pharmaceutical interventions", that is, masks to you and me!
 

roversfan2001

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And isn't that travel pattern the norm for cup finals - some fans are on charters, some get there themselves?
Trains being chartered for big games isn't unheard of but it's far from the norm. Fans travelling on normal public transport is one of the main ways of travelling to away games, that wasn't allowed for this 'experiment'. Forcing fans to use a charter train to only get most of the way there was pointless. Either don't do it at all or do it properly.

It's all theatre, there's quite obviously an absolutely miniscule risk in attending live sport given current case and vaccination levels. Only allowing 8,000 fans (of which half weren't even fans of the two teams) in a stadium that can hold 90,000 people is a disgrace. All the additional theatre around it just makes it worse.

There's a test nightclub event in Liverpool this weekend involving 6,000 people over two nights with no social distancing or masks involved. That's a far better trial than this whole charade.
 

RuralRambler

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These trials don't prove anything anyway when cases are so low. At, say, 2k case per day, assuming you're infectious for, say, 10 days, that's 20k people in the country who are infectious, so only a measly 0.03% of the population. So even if you have 20,000 people in Wembley (or enroute), the chances are that only 6 or 7 of them were infectious, so the chances of any kind of "spike" arising are miniscule, especially if most are wearing masks and socially distanced. Same with the beaches and protests last Summer, when cases are so low, these kind of "gatherings" really aren't going to cause spikes.

Same with a nightclub or other "high risk" indoors event. If there are 3,000 people attending, chances are that only 1 of them would be infectious. A place with so many people inside would be pretty large, even if cramped, and there's a limit to how many people you can come into contact with in just a few hours. I seem to recall figures that 1 infectious person could infect around 25 others in the right conditions. So in the scenario of 3,000 people, only even 25 of them catching it still wouldn't cause any noticeable "spike", unless they all went out and infected another 25 each a few nights later. In reality, most of the potential 25 would only pass it to 1 or 2 other people, so no obvious spike. You'd need a few dozen infected people in that nightclub of 3,000 to make any noticeable spike.

The time to do these trials are when case numbers are much higher when there are plenty of infectious people around. I really don't see any point in doing it when case numbers are so low as the results can't be reliable if you don't know how many people were infected before hand. The only use would be if they did know how many were infectious, i.e. if they tested everyone upon entry using accurate tests (i.e. the ones that take a day or so to process, not the fast ones). Yes, the event will be over by the time they know who was infected, but at least it gives more accurate results as to the spread of infection in these venues.
 

matt_world2004

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They were bubbled onto trains to either Watford Junction or Euston. Those who didn't get the charter train either got put on coaches or had to make their own way there by car.

It was an entirely pointless '#covidsafe' exercise as those who went by train had to make the rest of the journey on normal public transport. Either everyone should have been allowed to make their own way there as they saw fit (ie normal) or everyone should have been bussed in on coaches with mandatory masks and social distancing (the weird dystopial new normal some people wish to have).

Don't even get me started on the ridiculously low crowd number and the insistence on masks.#

Luckily, being a Blackburn fan, I won't ever have to worry about Covid-safe travel to cup finals. :lol:
What was preventing fans attending the event getting on a non chartered service if they didn't get the train.
 

matt_world2004

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I suspect they wouldn’t have got anywhere near Wembley Stadium if they didn’t arrive by their specified mode of transport.
How would Wembley stadium have identified those who got off the charter train If they then switched to a local train at Watford or Euston.
 

VauxhallandI

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I suspect they wouldn’t have got anywhere near Wembley Stadium if they didn’t arrive by their specified mode of transport.
I travelled by LO and tube to the game.

Oh and there were plenty of us City fans in the half that weren’t even fans by the way.

It was very handy that a testing centre is about 50 metres from the entrance to the stadium
 

cuccir

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What was preventing fans attending the event getting on a non chartered service if they didn't get the train.
Nothing because that wasn't the plan. You can still look at the advice given to Spurs fans on travel (this also applied to all local-based fans, ie, including Man City fans not coming from Manchester) if you wish. It also looks like there was no chartered return trains?

For fans travelling from Manchester it was a bit more complicated: tickets were sold on the basis as to how you intended to travel (eg 250 had to say they'd drive, 750 get the train etc) and if you chose train it looks like you had to buy your ticket in the same transaction, so I presume that would have forced you onto one of the chartered trains. But I don't suppose anything would stop the fans who chose 'drive' also then buying a separate rail or coach ticket.

But the point is that this wasn't a one-off: it's part of the same programme of events as the no mask, no social distancing nightclub events in Manchester and Liverpool over the last week. So the aim will be to compare different measures being taken at events to see if any show evidence of any notable impact.
 

roversfan2001

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But the point is that this wasn't a one-off: it's part of the same programme of events as the no mask, no social distancing nightclub events in Manchester and Liverpool over the last week. So the aim will be to compare different measures being taken at events to see if any show evidence of any notable impact.
Comparing apples with oranges a little bit then. Attending a football match is not at all comparable to going to a rave or a gig in terms of interaction with different people.
 
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