Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[DelW]

In essence the battery/diesel hybrid will operate like a Prius. Battery for city/station operation with the diesels functioning as a "range extender".

I don't think that comparison is quite correct. The Prius comes in two forms, a conventional hybrid which charges only from the petrol engine or regenerative braking, and a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) which can be charged from the mains as well, and has a longer electric range. Both use mechanical transmission to drive the wheels when the petrol engine is in use (a CVT - continuously variable transmission - for the Prius). Most other hybrids work the same way, though mostly with other forms of gearbox.

"Range extender" is usually taken to mean a car that is always driven by its electric motors, though they may be being powered by the engine and generator as well as, or instead of, the battery. I think only two have been sold in Britain, the discontinued Vauxhall Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt) and the BMW I3, though there might have been others that I've missed. So those are really the only ones that work the same way as the 230s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Range extender" is usually taken to mean a car that is always driven by its electric motors, though they may be being powered by the engine and generator as well as, or instead of, the battery. I think only two have been sold in Britain, the discontinued Vauxhall Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt) and the BMW I3, though there might have been others that I've missed. So those are really the only ones that work the same way as the 230s.

Another term used there is a "series hybrid". Most full hybrids on the market are "parallel hybrids", i.e. both the electric motor and the ICE are connected to the wheels.

 

[Billy A]

I don't think that comparison is quite correct. The Prius comes in two forms, a conventional hybrid which charges only from the petrol engine or regenerative braking, and a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) which can be charged from the mains as well, and has a longer electric range. Both use mechanical transmission to drive the wheels when the petrol engine is in use (a CVT - continuously variable transmission - for the Prius). Most other hybrids work the same way, though mostly with other forms of gearbox.

"Range extender" is usually taken to mean a car that is always driven by its electric motors, though they may be being powered by the engine and generator as well as, or instead of, the battery. I think only two have been sold in Britain, the discontinued Vauxhall Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt) and the BMW I3, though there might have been others that I've missed. So those are really the only ones that work the same way as the 230s.

Note though that the Volt wasn't just electrically driven: at higher speed the engine drove the wheels directly in the interests of greater efficiency. It did this in the first model by being clutched to the motor, the second generation works somewhat differently but the outcome is still part mechanical drive.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

No, I mean London Northwestern Railway. TfW are getting the hybrids. No pure battery units are presently on order.

Ah ok. I am getting LNR, confused with West Midlands Trains.

 

[MK Tom]

Went out to catch the Class 230 on test on the Marston Vale Line today. Some video is here:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah ok. I am getting LNR, confused with West Midlands Trains.

WMT is the TOC (like GTR), and it has two brands, LNR and WMR (like Thameslink, Southern and GatEx). Though it doesn't quite have the same motivation to faff about with ticket validities routed by brand.

 

[Neen Sollars]

You Tuber - Smile video at Bletchley yesterday spoke to a guard who said the 230 has a problem with its cruise control and hence the delay into service. Does a cruise control problem sound credible to those in the engineering know?

 

[sw1ller]

Granted the trains I drive are old, but cruse control doesn’t sound like a thing ASLEF would be keen on. The speed hold button is disabled in 175’s because of this. (However, one does work)

 

[craigybagel]

You Tuber - Smile video at Bletchley yesterday spoke to a guard who said the 230 has a problem with its cruise control and hence the delay into service. Does a cruise control problem sound credible to those in the engineering know?

Sounds rather odd. The stations are so close together it's not like cruise control is going to get used very much - and most of the UK fleet copes ok without it!

Granted the trains I drive are old, but cruse control doesn’t sound like a thing ASLEF would be keen on. The speed hold button is disabled in 175’s because of this. (However, one does work)

It used to be used on 390s at Virgin regularly - although I believe lately that isn't the case. It's fitted to TPE's 185s as well and I've never heard of any objections from ASLEF there to it.

 

[sw1ller]

It used to be used on 390s at Virgin regularly - although I believe lately that isn't the case. It's fitted to TPE's 185s as well and I've never heard of any objections from ASLEF there to it.

Interesting, I can only go by what my instructors have told be a few years ago when I went through training. I’ve never used it. Would be a nice feature to have to be fair. Means I can keep my eyes looking out the window more.

 

[D365]

I don't remember seeing a "cruise control" function in operation, but I don't suppose you'd need it on the test track...

 

[Fincra5]

Granted the trains I drive are old, but cruse control doesn’t sound like a thing ASLEF would be keen on. The speed hold button is disabled in 175’s because of this. (However, one does work)

377s Have it. But it was disabled due to some incidents (Company Choice). Its supposed to be re-enabled for driving at 5mph around the Yard... but none seem to work.

 

[superalbs]

Saw one today at Bedford. Could not help myself but laugh, although they do look good.

VERY quiet, quieter than many pure EMUs are even.

 

[big all]

nice picture thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

The front is definitely a "space invaders ghost" look

I think the livery does suit it. Probably about the only thing it does suit; it looks like a packet of Trebor Mints on a 350. Too many vertical elements.

 

[Unclepete]

Saw one today at Bedford. Could not help myself but laugh, although they do look good.

VERY quiet, quieter than many pure EMUs are even.

Nice picture, so when are we going to see them in service? This Month / February ?

thx

 

[DarloRich]

Nice picture, so when are we going to see them in service? This Month / February ?

no street word on this yet. Driver training has started but guard training has not. The 230 is regularly running all day now so testing/training must have ramped up

 

[Bletchleyite]

no street word on this yet. Driver training has started but guard training has not. The 230 is regularly running all day now so testing/training must have ramped up

Are they to be worked conventionally, i.e. guard release and close, or is driver release/guard close to be used? The latter would save several minutes on a typical Marston Vale run as guards often delay door release to complete a transaction. (This doesn't actually delay the trains as the timetable takes this into account, but I'd hope that after they bed in with their improved acceleration and this possibility it would be feasible to reduce timetabled running times a bit).

 

[DarloRich]

Are they to be worked conventionally, i.e. guard release and close, or is driver release/guard close to be used? The latter would save several minutes on a typical Marston Vale run.

no idea. suspect conventional.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

no street word on this yet. Driver training has started but guard training has not. The 230 is regularly running all day now so testing/training must have ramped up

The logical question now is what is the current status of the other two units.

 

[DarloRich]

The logical question now is what is the current status of the other two units.

they are apparently complete at Long Marston

 

[Neen Sollars]

they are apparently complete at Long Marston

With the fault fixed? If so delivery within a couple of weeks I guess.

 

[DannyMich2018]

With the fault fixed? If so delivery within a couple of weeks I guess.

I'd hope so, the Class 150/153 on the line can be better redeployed elsewhere but with nearly all new or re-built trains at the minute been heavily late (Class 195, 769, Scotrail HSTs, CAF MK 5's, Class 710 etc) I wouldn't hold your breathe!!

 

[HLE]

Guards training should just be a day or two which is why they wouldn't have started yet. Drivers would be a complete course which is usually 2-3 weeks traction dependant.

 

[DarloRich]

With the fault fixed? If so delivery within a couple of weeks I guess.

it seems to have been an overblown minor fault. Such is the world of street word!

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[BucksBones]

Circular came out from ASLEF today. Make of this what you will...


CLASS 230 TRAINING - WMT

In their January session the Executive Committee gave consideration to a report from their Training Sub Committee on the above issue. The Executive Committee dealt with the matter by adopting the following resolution;

117/484 “That the report be noted and the General Secretary be instructed to advise the HR Director, WMT that the proposed training course for the Class 230 is acceptable to ASLEF.

Further EC Res 914/482 be reaffirmed and that training will not commence until all ASLEF concerns have been addressed.

All Branches and Reps WMT be advised.”

Resolution 914/482 is reproduced below for your information.

914/482 “That the report be noted and developments awaited.

Further, the General Secretary be instructed to advise the Operations Director, West Midlands Trains that the Class 230 stock entering service for any purpose other than testing is not acceptable to ASLEF.

All branches and reps be advised.”

I’m no expert but doesn’t that mean 230s entering full service would be unacceptable “until all ASLEF concerns are addressed”?
Perhaps just a case of dotting i’s and crossing t’s...?

 

[krus_aragon]

I read it as "We're happy with the planned method of training, but we won't allow training to start until other problems(*) are sorted."

* Some physical issues with the units, perhaps?

 

[samuelmorris]

I read it as "We're happy with the planned method of training, but we won't allow training to start until other problems(*) are sorted."

* Some physical issues with the units, perhaps?

Yes that's how I interpret it too. The training course is satisfactory, but will not begin as the units themselves are currently considered unsatisfactory.

 

[sw1ller]

It sounds a lot like the one that came out in Oct/nov with the added phrase of “we’re happy with the training”. I think it’s just reiterating the previous circular but showing there is satisfactory progress being made.