Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[big all]

Given that the 230s are coming with different power sources (DEMU/hybrid/battery/hydrogen) I'm slightly surprised they've not been hived off into different classes or seven subclasses.

they are unlike any other units
the set up with its interchangeable underfloor modules so is indeed possible to have say pure battery end and diesel electric end then another week 2 battery packs then 2 engine modules the next month

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes the 230 was very briefly mentioned by Richard Hammond driving a Ford Ranger with the same engine saying "it can pull a train"

Yeah I was quite amazed when I saw that. The last show I would have expected to see the 230 mentioned on - Class 230 and Vivarail were both mentioned, and the remark came up on at least two separate occasions. I wonder who organised that bit of publicity?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah it did, wasn’t a special, just, what pick up truck is best. Says the 5.something litre ford ranger can “literally pull a train” as that’s what Vivarail are using. Sooo...... there name is mentioned.

Ah, right, I missed that reference!

As May is definitely a self-confessed train geek and the Class 230 is very much their kind of thing in terms of (a) modifying things and (b) big diesel engines, it's not actually that surprising!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Yes the 230 was very briefly mentioned by Richard Hammond driving a Ford Ranger with the same engine saying "it can pull a train"

The million dollar question is will it ever pull a train loaded with passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The million dollar question is will it ever pull a train loaded with passengers?

The engine? I think it's pretty clear it will, on the Marston Vale, soon enough.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ah, right, I missed that reference!

As May is definitely a self-confessed train geek and the Class 230 is very much their kind of thing in terms of (a) modifying things and (b) big diesel engines, it's not actually that surprising!

Though it was Hammond that mentioned it, so maybe now there's only Clarkson still "in the closet" so to speak!

 

[samuelmorris]

Though it was Hammond that mentioned it, so maybe now there's only Clarkson still "in the closet" so to speak!

If he were a 'train geek' as Bletychleyite puts it, he wouldn't have referred to it as a '230 Class' instead of 'Class 230' - petty minor detail, but methinks that was just dumped in the script for him to read out

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If he were a 'train geek' as Bletychleyite puts it, he wouldn't have referred to it as a '230 Class' instead of 'Class 230' - petty minor detail, but methinks that was just dumped in the script for him to read out

Though he is a known Americana-phile (if that's the word)... so saying it that way round isn't necessarily a red flag!

 

[bastien]

Though it was Hammond that mentioned it, so maybe now there's only Clarkson still "in the closet" so to speak!

Didn't Clarkson do some thing involving Tornado? I forget what, it all blurs into one a bit.

 

[samuelmorris]

Didn't Clarkson do some thing involving Tornado? I forget what, it all blurs into one a bit.

Yes, it was race between Tornado and a period car/motorcycle. Quite a good episode as I recall.

 

[anamyd]

If he were a 'train geek' as Bletychleyite puts it, he wouldn't have referred to it as a '230 Class' instead of 'Class 230' - petty minor detail, but methinks that was just dumped in the script for him to read out

Isn't the 230 Class the Irish version...?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Didn't Clarkson do some thing involving Tornado? I forget what, it all blurs into one a bit.

Yes, it was race between Tornado and a period car/motorcycle. Quite a good episode as I recall.

IIRC Jezza quite enjoyed his footplate on Tornado, so unfortunately the ideal presenters for "Railway Top Gear" are already occupied on a car show!

So we'll be stuck with Tarrant, Strawbridge and Portaloo I guess. ***cringe***

 

[Bertie the bus]

The engine? I think it's pretty clear it will, on the Marston Vale, soon enough.

It's clear it is going to happen soon is it? OK, if you say so...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's clear it is going to happen soon is it? OK, if you say so...

Do you have evidence that it is not?

 

[anamyd]

IIRC Jezza quite enjoyed his footplate on Tornado, so unfortunately the ideal presenters for "Railway Top Gear" are already occupied on a car show!

Let's not forget the train they made with an Audi S8 locomotive hauling a rake of caravan carriages... Though I fear we have gone badly off-topic now

 

[jimm]

Thanks for the link. I always like the photos of Long Marston depot, not only for the subject matter but to see what is going on in the background. In this photo I think you can see a 230 centre car waiting to go into the paintshop. It has the modified larger coach connecting gangway, which will have the rubber gangway surround fitted to allow through access between the coaches with no doors on the Transport for Wales trains.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149822823@N04/33120953798/in/photostream/

There's a closer-in image showing that coach on Peter Tandy's site, plus some more pictures of 230004.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

He also has a section with Long Marston photos going back many years, to when it was still an operational military site in the 1990s.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/longmarston page.html

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a closer-in image showing that coach on Peter Tandy's site, plus some more pictures of 230004.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

He also has a section with Long Marston photos going back many years, to when it was still an operational military site in the 1990s.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/longmarston page.html

That coach isn't the new gangway, it's the old one - a conventional UIC rubber bumper (of the type fitted to almost all classic European LHCS) around the existing door - which is what the LNR units are going to have. Indeed, if you look closely it's an end coach and not a middle - so may well be (half of) one of 003, 004 or 005.

 

[konstant]

Yes the 230 was very briefly mentioned by Richard Hammond driving a Ford Ranger with the same engine saying "it can pull a train"

I never understand this in the media, even though I see the link with regards common engines between the two. On the shop floor it's quite common to push HSTs, 225s, MK3s, infact most locomotives, by hand, because it's usually easier and quicker than waiting for the shunter. The first time you see four lads pushing an IC 225 the length of the shed it's a bit of a tough one to compute, but then once you try it, you see the criminality that is 4 wheel drive vehicles in low box dragging them. I reckon you could move a Class 43 with a Fiat 500, so somebody needs to tell the public the truth about our discreet lack of friction!

 

[Jozhua]

I never understand this in the media, even though I see the link with regards common engines between the two. On the shop floor it's quite common to push HSTs, 225s, MK3s, infact most locomotives, by hand, because it's usually easier and quicker than waiting for the shunter. The first time you see four lads pushing an IC 225 the length of the shed it's a bit of a tough one to compute, but then once you try it, you see the criminality that is 4 wheel drive vehicles in low box dragging them. I reckon you could move a Class 43 with a Fiat 500, so somebody needs to tell the public the truth about our discreet lack of friction!

I tell you what, that would be an interesting video!

 

[samuelmorris]

If an SUV can pull an A380 on rubber tyres, it does stand to reason that practically anything could move a loco on rails.

 

[gazthomas]

If an SUV can pull an A380 on rubber tyres, it does stand to reason that practically anything could move a loco on rails.

Exactly, especially given the rolling resistance (friction) of metal wheels on metal track is much lower.

Now, hopefully we can back to what's happening with the 230s...

 

[The Planner]

Not trawled through the pages so it may have been done to death, but TfW are apparently pursuing a vehicle change consultation to run 230s on a number of routes in North Wales, Wrexham Bidston, Wrexham Chester, Chester Crewe, Llandudno Jn shuttle and Blaenau from this year. Maintained at Wrexham from what I hear.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Not trawled through the pages so it may have been done to death, but TfW are apparently pursuing a vehicle change consultation to run 230s on a number of routes in North Wales, Wrexham Bidston, Wrexham Chester, Chester Crewe, Llandudno Jn shuttle and Blaenau from this year. Maintained at Wrexham from what I hear.

This is from the Vivarail website: http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-announce-new-order-for-wales-and-borders/

5 x 3 car DEMU units ordered to date. No TfW 230`s spotted at Long Marston so far.

 

[konstant]

Not trawled through the pages so it may have been done to death, but TfW are apparently pursuing a vehicle change consultation to run 230s on a number of routes in North Wales, Wrexham Bidston, Wrexham Chester, Chester Crewe, Llandudno Jn shuttle and Blaenau from this year. Maintained at Wrexham from what I hear.

The problem with this plan still remains about the lack of authorisation for entry in to service. Not withstanding that the 230 would be one of the only vehicles to achieve permission to run through the tunnels between Llandudno to Blaenau, which are some of the narrowest in the country, without a gangway end door or other form of end evacuation, the elephant in the room remains that the Class 230 has absolutely no authorisation to carry passengers in service except for the trial certification issued by the ORR for testing, which effectively only covered one unit. There has been no formal attempt to secure approvals or authorisation for entry into service and Vivarail have been reminded of this repeatedly by Network Rail. There are individuals within VR who believe this will be the first piece of modern rolling stock in the UK to completely skip out the entire approvals process and that they'll operate just fine "because it ran on LUL and has a test cert".

 

[Chester1]

Not trawled through the pages so it may have been done to death, but TfW are apparently pursuing a vehicle change consultation to run 230s on a number of routes in North Wales, Wrexham Bidston, Wrexham Chester, Chester Crewe, Llandudno Jn shuttle and Blaenau from this year. Maintained at Wrexham from what I hear.

Apart from the Llandudno shuttle hasn't that always been the plan until the new CAF and Stadler units enter service? Crewe-Chester, Llandudno-Blaenau and Bidston-Wrexham first and in the long term putting all of them on Bidston-Wrexham to provide a half hourly service with 4 units and with 1 spare.

 

[krus_aragon]

Not withstanding that the 230 would be one of the only vehicles to achieve permission to run through the tunnels between Llandudno to Blaenau, which are some of the narrowest in the country, without a gangway end door or other form of end evacuation

They're not unique in their lack of end-doors: the Class 101 units used on the line until the 90s didn't have any (and I recall Pacers were also used at one point).

 

[krus_aragon]

Apart from the Llandudno shuttle hasn't that always been the plan until the new CAF and Stadler units enter service? Crewe-Chester, Llandudno-Blaenau and Bidston-Wrexham first and in the long term putting all of them on Bidston-Wrexham to provide a half hourly service with 4 units and with 1 spare.

It is, but the news that a Network Change proposal is in the works is a welcome status update.

 

[konstant]

They're not unique in their lack of end-doors: the Class 101 units used on the line until the 90s didn't have any (and I recall Pacers were also used at one point).

You are correct, but a vehicle built almost 70 years ago and retired almost 30 years ago will not stand the test of any modern scrutiny. Grandfather rules do not apply, and little if anything in the last 30 years through this tunnels has restricted emergency egress in the manner this rolling stock will. The ORR will manage this risk regardless, when the vehicles are finally put through scrutiny.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

230004 seems to be on the move to Bletchley.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91548/2019/02/07/advanced

 

[Bletchleyite]

They're not unique in their lack of end-doors: the Class 101 units used on the line until the 90s didn't have any (and I recall Pacers were also used at one point).

I don't think Pacers have ever been used (they'd get stuck on the curves) but North West Class 150/1s have certainly been used, and they don't have an end door either. Pacers would actually be ideal for the line if it wasn't for that factor, particularly with the low step which is good for low platforms (though most if not all have now I think been raised either properly or by way of a Harrington hump).