Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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43096

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No, it's a mix of issues. The door issues are the most surprising, as the door mechanisms are the originals which have worked reliably on LUL for years. That said, they have been "throttled" to slow them down - but they need speeding back up!
I’m told the door opening times have not been touched.
 
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Dstock7080

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A key reason for departure early from LUL of the D78s and 1983 stock was the slow opening single leaf doors that caused too much station delays.
So it took 37 years to realise that ??
Certainly weren’t slow to operate while with LU.
Having been on the LNWR 230s the doors do operate differently, the closing damper has been removed causing the door to slam. In LU days one air operated door engine worked two adjacent doors, this is clearly not the case with the current 230s as the adjacent door is removed. I suspect that the door engine has been replaced, changed or altered from LU days.
 

edwin_m

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So it took 37 years to realise that ??
Certainly weren’t slow to operate while with LU.
Having been on the LNWR 230s the doors do operate differently, the closing damper has been removed causing the door to slam. In LU days one air operated door engine worked two adjacent doors, this is clearly not the case with the current 230s as the adjacent door is removed. I suspect that the door engine has been replaced, changed or altered from LU days.
I recall the doors being mentioned as a reason for the early replacement of the 1983 stock - but perhaps not so much the speed of operation as the fact they were too narrow and would slow alighting and boarding. At one time a mixed fleed of 1983 and new stock was being talked about for the Jubilee, but the difference in dwell times would have made that very difficult - though compatiblity with platform screen doors was probably the real showstopper. Maybe not quite so much of an issue with the D78, as the District probably didn't have quite as much of an issue with dwell times, but with gradual increase in passenger numbers it became more of a problem and combined with ATO compatibility and the benefits of a common fleet was enough to justify replacement before end of life.

If the door engine previously worked two doors and now only works one then without modification the remaining door would operate faster because of the reduced mechanical resistance. Perhaps the engine itself has been left unchanged and its air supply choked, resulting in doors which take a while to get moving but then accelerate to a greater speed than before?
 

Neen Sollars

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Just seeking confirmation please as I must have missed it. The 153 has now left the Marston Vale line and Bletchley to Bedford is solely operated by the 230`s?
 

Neen Sollars

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Regarding the demonstrator trains - the three car 230001 and two car 230002, the latest press release regarding the hydorgen unit stated the demo set would be a two car unit. The commercial unit would be a four car set batteries in the end cars and hydrogen system in the centre cars. The demo unit will have one battery car and one hydrogen car, so quite possible that either 001 or 002 will be used, a key selling point of the 230`s after all is ease of adaptability between power configurations. We also know a two car battery demonstrator is being sent to the US soon. I guess my point is that having lots of demo units may keep the workforce busy but does not pay the bills. No further orders publicly confirmed after the TfW sets are delivered. Whilst I accept the teething issues with new stock happen, I had hoped for better reliability from the 230`s on the MV line. I am on the side of the fare paying passenger who deserves a better service.
 

superkev

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Not sure it's been mentioned here but this month Modern Railways reports that future units will have Caterpillar engines. I always thought the automotive Ford engine was not a good idea particularly after Wrights had to rebuild and lengthen some London hybrid buses and fit different engines.
K
 

swt_passenger

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Not sure it's been mentioned here but this month Modern Railways reports that future units will have Caterpillar engines. I always thought the automotive Ford engine was not a good idea particularly after Wrights had to rebuild and lengthen some London hybrid buses and fit different engines.
K
Yes, it was first mentioned a couple of weeks ago, in this thread, someone quoted a Vivarail tweet in post #7934.
 

RealTrains07

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Regarding the demonstrator trains - the three car 230001 and two car 230002, the latest press release regarding the hydorgen unit stated the demo set would be a two car unit. The commercial unit would be a four car set batteries in the end cars and hydrogen system in the centre cars. The demo unit will have one battery car and one hydrogen car, so quite possible that either 001 or 002 will be used, a key selling point of the 230`s after all is ease of adaptability between power configurations. We also know a two car battery demonstrator is being sent to the US soon. I guess my point is that having lots of demo units may keep the workforce busy but does not pay the bills. No further orders publicly confirmed after the TfW sets are delivered. Whilst I accept the teething issues with new stock happen, I had hoped for better reliability from the 230`s on the MV line. I am on the side of the fare paying passenger who deserves a better service.
Makes sense having 4 cars otherwise if vivarail keep producing 3 and 2 car units they are gonna run out of engine units to operate them

Also future is that a 230 unit is being sent over to the US for testing in ohio.

Love it how british trains are being exported :lol:
 

anthony263

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Regarding the demonstrator trains - the three car 230001 and two car 230002, the latest press release regarding the hydorgen unit stated the demo set would be a two car unit. The commercial unit would be a four car set batteries in the end cars and hydrogen system in the centre cars. The demo unit will have one battery car and one hydrogen car, so quite possible that either 001 or 002 will be used, a key selling point of the 230`s after all is ease of adaptability between power configurations. We also know a two car battery demonstrator is being sent to the US soon. I guess my point is that having lots of demo units may keep the workforce busy but does not pay the bills. No further orders publicly confirmed after the TfW sets are delivered. Whilst I accept the teething issues with new stock happen, I had hoped for better reliability from the 230`s on the MV line. I am on the side of the fare paying passenger who deserves a better service.
Think 230002 is being sent to tfw to help train drivers
 

jimm

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Regarding the demonstrator trains - the three car 230001 and two car 230002, the latest press release regarding the hydorgen unit stated the demo set would be a two car unit. The commercial unit would be a four car set batteries in the end cars and hydrogen system in the centre cars. The demo unit will have one battery car and one hydrogen car, so quite possible that either 001 or 002 will be used, a key selling point of the 230`s after all is ease of adaptability between power configurations. We also know a two car battery demonstrator is being sent to the US soon. I guess my point is that having lots of demo units may keep the workforce busy but does not pay the bills. No further orders publicly confirmed after the TfW sets are delivered. Whilst I accept the teething issues with new stock happen, I had hoped for better reliability from the 230`s on the MV line. I am on the side of the fare paying passenger who deserves a better service.
Makes sense having 4 cars otherwise if vivarail keep producing 3 and 2 car units they are gonna run out of engine units to operate them

Also future is that a 230 unit is being sent over to the US for testing in ohio.

Love it how british trains are being exported :lol:
The Modern Railways article I referred to above (post 8183 on the previous page), which was clearly based on a detailed conversation with someone at Vivarail, says that the two-car demonstrator set going to the US will be the driving coaches of 230001, with batteries replacing the diesel engines. It is going to Iowa, not Ohio.
 

RealTrains07

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The Modern Railways article I referred to above (post 8183 on the previous page), which was clearly based on a detailed conversation with someone at Vivarail, says that the two-car demonstrator set going to the US will be the driving coaches of 230001, with batteries replacing the diesel engines. It is going to Iowa, not Ohio.
My mistake, i heard about it in an interview. Wondered why ohio didnt sound right
 

DarloRich

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Bank holiday service on the Marston Vale line today with 230003 and 230005 doing the honours. This is a big development for us and i took advantage to pop to Ridgmont to the Hertigate centre and tea room there followed by a run to Bedford and back. No issues reported.

230003 was displaying what I believe is known by those in the spotting fraternity as "thrash" and "clag" on pulling away!

PS the Heritage centre tea room at Ridgmont does a great cake and tea. You should visit if you are in the area.
 

gazthomas

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The Modern Railways article I referred to above (post 8183 on the previous page), which was clearly based on a detailed conversation with someone at Vivarail, says that the two-car demonstrator set going to the US will be the driving coaches of 230001, with batteries replacing the diesel engines. It is going to Iowa, not Ohio.
I hope it's a more successful trip than those of its Pacer forebears (or should that be successors?!)
 

duffield

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Bank holiday service on the Marston Vale line today with 230003 and 230005 doing the honours. This is a big development for us and i took advantage to pop to Ridgmont to the Hertigate centre and tea room there followed by a run to Bedford and back. No issues reported.

230003 was displaying what I believe is known by those in the spotting fraternity as "thrash" and "clag" on pulling away!

PS the Heritage centre tea room at Ridgmont does a great cake and tea. You should visit if you are in the area.
As I was planing a visit on Monday, I kept an eye on the reliability for the previous couple of days and it *seems* to have settled down. Adding in yesterday and today so far that makes four days of fault-free running I think.

Got the 15:55 from Bedford to Bletchley, 230003 if I remember correctly, I was favourably impressed - clean & bright, good acceleration, only issue was that the power & USB sockets were not working (in my 4 seat bay anyhow) a few slightly concerning grinding noises.

The rest of the journey didn't go as well; 16:41 Bletchley to Birmingham/Crewe/Rugeley taken out of service at Northampton, everybody across the bridge onto a replacement - which then left without the conductor, stopped and eventually reversed back supposedly to pick them up, but then was then *also* taken out of service for reasons unknown (possibily the driver in for 'tea and no biscuits' for leaving without the conductor?).
Third time lucky on yet another service, we actually got to Birmingham (no Crewe or Rugeley though!), although both toilets were out of order on the 4-car unit I was in.

There were some *very* pissed off people who'd had to drag heavy luggage across the bridge at Northampton *twice*.

**Conductor is what WMR seem to prefer, on these services at least.
 

DarloRich

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As I was planing a visit on Monday, I kept an eye on the reliability for the previous couple of days and it *seems* to have settled down. Adding in yesterday and today so far that makes four days of fault-free running I think.

Got the 15:55 from Bedford to Bletchley, 230003 if I remember correctly, I was favourably impressed - clean & bright, good acceleration, only issue was that the power & USB sockets were not working (in my 4 seat bay anyhow) a few slightly concerning grinding noises.

The rest of the journey didn't go as well; 16:41 Bletchley to Birmingham/Crewe/Rugeley taken out of service at Northampton, everybody across the bridge onto a replacement - which then left without the conductor, stopped and eventually reversed back supposedly to pick them up, but then was then *also* taken out of service for reasons unknown (possibily the driver in for 'tea and no biscuits' for leaving without the conductor?).
Third time lucky on yet another service, we actually got to Birmingham (no Crewe or Rugeley though!), although both toilets were out of order on the 4-car unit I was in.

There were some *very* pissed off people who'd had to drag heavy luggage across the bridge at Northampton *twice*.

**Conductor is what WMR seem to prefer, on these services at least.
Had a ride on the Marston vale line today and must say was impressed by the 230s and was chatting to the driver at Bedford who seemed to like them
glad you liked them - us regular users are very happy with how nice they are inside
 

Bletchleyite

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230004 doing the rounds today.

Must say I'm impressed so far with the inside ambiance.
Does anyone else think they are very much like a high-floor underfloor-engined Stadler FLIRT/GTW in concept, for those who have used those units in Switzerland and Germany? A unit designed for branch lines - something UK branch lines have never really had before, ever, really? (I don't count Pacers as they were just designed to be cheap).
 

700007

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There looks like some time is opening up in my busy diary for the next month and I would like to spend one of the days in June doing the Marston Vale again but with the new 230s. The railway enthusiast in me is quite excited about this, and I might try and knock out a lot of the intermediate stations inbetween. Mostly aimed at DarloRich and Bletchleyite as local experts, what is there to do for an hour in Bow Brickhill and Ridgmont whilst waiting for the next train? Any interesting things or local landmarks?
 
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