Crewe-Liverpool Lime Street

[M60lad]

I was just wondering whether a Crewe-Liverpool ticket is actually valid via Chester as I managed to do this today, or was it only valid today due to the Engineering works on the normal direct route

The reason is that I went for the Rail Replacement Coach at Crewe this afternoon and was told by one of the coordinators to get the train to Chester then train to Liverpool Lime Street as it would be quicker and my ticket would be valid which I did and I had no problems either with the Arriva Trains Wales conductor on 16:23 Crewe-Chester service or the conductor on 17:01 Chester-Liverpool Lime Street service

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It isn't as far as I can see, but there may have been special arrangements in place today on account of the closure of the route via Hartford / Runcorn.

 

[gnolife]

A Crewe-Liverpool isn't valid via Chester as far as I can tell.

 

[yorkie]

I was just wondering whether a Crewe-Liverpool ticket is actually valid via Chester as I managed to do this today, or was it only valid today due to the Engineering works on the normal direct route

Valid Routes from Liverpool Stations to Crewe [CRE]:

1. Direct trains from Liverpool to Crewe
2. Shortest Route: 35.5 miles (Plus routes up to 3 miles longer)
   • Liverpool Lime Street
   • Liverpool South Parkway
   • Runcorn
   • Hartford (Cheshire)
   • Crewe
3. Mapped Routes :
   LIVERPOOL GROUP - Crewe:
   • EM
   • ML + NC
   • NL + NC

 

[tony_mac]

I think that via Chester is probably within 3 miles of the shortest route.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Indeed it is by 18 chains! hock:

 

[1D53]

Have done it before, as said above it just meets the 3 mile rule.

 

[lyndhurst25]

According to the milages in the National Rail timetable (which are rounded to the nearest 1/4 mile) -

Crewe-Chester=21m
Chester-Liverpool Lime Street =17.75m
Total=38.75m (3.25m longer than the shortest route)

Using the "Liverpool Group" stations of Moorfields, James Street or Hamilton Square get the milage difference to m.

Not sure what implications this has. Is a ticket to from Crewe to "Liverpool Stations" valid via Chester whereas one to "Liverpool Lime Street" not? On a "Liverpool Stations" ticket can you still go all the way to Lime Street or would you need to get off at Moorfields?

Why don't they just list map CH in the routing guide so we don't have to do all these sums????


(Speaking of using the milages in the National Rail timetable to calculate valid routes - why does Table 30 have no mileages for Brigg, Kirton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central???)

 

[yorkie]

Not sure what implications this has.

You've opened a can of worms! Are you interested in attending one of our fares workshops? I may add this example to those that we cover!

Is a ticket to from Crewe to "Liverpool Stations" valid via Chester whereas one to "Liverpool Lime Street" not? On a "Liverpool Stations" ticket can you still go all the way to Lime Street or would you need to get off at Moorfields?

The tickets are al to Liverpool Stations (there may be some promotional tickets that are an exception to the rule).

ATOC tell us to use the NRT mileages, but that's not what they tell the software developers who create tools to calculate the shortest route for booking engines! They are told to use the Network Rail mileage figures (yes in miles & chains) and then decimalise them, and then to allow a bit of extra mileage on top to cover any rounding discrepancies with NRT mileage.

It's certainly valid via Chester if your destination is Moorfields. It becomes a bit of a grey area if you go beyond Moorfields, but let's face it, if anyone presented themselves at the barrier at Liverpool Lime St and asked if they were OK to continue from Moorfields to Liverpool Lime St, I think they would think you are bonkers for even asking and probably wouldn't understand what you were worried about! (Sorry, I know that's not quite answering the question, but when these grey areas occur I am not sure if any of us can provide a 'definitive' answer!)

Why don't they just list map CH in the routing guide so we don't have to do all these sums????

That would be genuinely "simple". ATOC like to do things that are complicated and pretend they are simple. Genuinely making things simple simply isn't on the agenda for the DfT or ATOC or any of the TOCs. The status quo of complicatedness remains!

(Speaking of using the milages in the National Rail timetable to calculate valid routes - why does Table 30 have no mileages for Brigg, Kirton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central???)

There are a lot of errors & omissions like this in the NRT. I suggest you contact the person who is listed as the contact at the start of the NRT, and you could also contact ATOC. Someone who did this said that they welcome such omissions being reported and aim to fix that. So, we'll see...!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A Crewe-Liverpool isn't valid via Chester as far as I can tell.

If you try and book a Crewe-Liverpool ticket via Chester on the VT web site it says "no tickets are available".
On the other hand if you book Euston to Liverpool via Chester (changing at Crewe) it is quite happy to offer you times with tickets at the same fares as the direct route.

 

[sonic2009]

I can book a ticket Crewe - Liverpool Lime Street specifying via Chester, if i ask London Midland's website to just check timetable first, specify avoid Runcorn, and force it to stop at Chester, and then click buy tickets, and it will offer me tickets via Chester.

 

[yorkie]

Simply specifying CRE - LIV via Chester gives an itinerary via Chester. With the xx49 Virgin services, you have the option of a reservation between Crewe & Chester.

 

[tony_mac]

if, by any choice, it's a problem - a Crewe to Huyton ticket is the same price, and is mapped via Chester.