Crisis at Bus Eireann

[Tetchytyke]

Average page in BE is about €46k for the driving grade, the problem is that the juniors are getting little above €35k and the seniors are taking home over €60k

I can well believe that the seniors end up with the best routes and they earn more as a result. But it's the same in most lines of work, on the railways the best schedules are reserved for the senior links. You work your way up.

If people can't work their way up, then there's a problem.

An overtime bill at Bus Eireann of EUR13m a year seems excessive. But, equally, if that overtime bill has been EUR13m a year for donkey's years then BE should be budgeting for it accordingly. If they didn't, that is weak management.

I was talking about in Ireland.

There aren't any big commercial operators in Ireland.

I think it's fair to compare to what happens in the UK, though, where directors get paid a fortune and drivers get diddly.

When I lived in Ireland it was controversy over them but the same people who are calling for increased tax funding to the companies are the same ones who did not want to pay property tax or water tax, they do not see the connection with the amount of tax being paid versus the amount of tax money that can be spent on public services.

I've not had the pleasure, but t'missus lived and worked in Ireland for ten years. The issue she always had was that taxes initially went up to allegedly pay for things like water and buses- look at the Universal Social Charge, for instance- and then the government, having taken the extra tax, decided to salami slice exemptions out of it. The bins was the starting point- in Dublin it's EUR100 a year to hire a bin and then it's EUR10 per empty- and then the water, not to mention EUR50 charges every time she went to the GP.

It was the little taxes, like the EUR30/year stamp duty on having a credit card and the EUR5/year stamp duty on her debit card, not to mention 12c every time she took some cash out, that really upset her though. I can see why.

What's the MD of Go North East on?

IIRC Kevin Carr is on about £400,000 a year.

By comparison, his bus drivers get paid £17,000 a year for a 39 hour week.

 

[DT611]

At the same time, the suggestion from the unions, or certainly one of them, is for the government to simply throw money at it. The reality is, you're trying to cure the symptom, not the cause. It's like the car battery going flat; replacing it with another battery will get you off the motorway, but if you don't get the cause fixed, the same situation will occur again.

The difficulty here is that there needs to be, I think, two solutions. Firstly, a short term one to try and fix some of the losses, and a longer term one, to improve productivity. In terms of the latter, it would be ideal if a policy of natural wastage, where some staff who leave are not replaced, is adopted. It's not going to be easy however to do, as you don't know when staff are going to leave.

In addition, another idea might be that any new staff be placed on new working patterns, but the other staff stay as they are, until they leave.

It's not the best ideas in the world, but really, I think two solutions are needed, one short term, and one long term. I notice that no one from CIE, the parent of Bus Eireann, has got involved yet. Any reason why?

Something along those lines i'd agree with. Or maybe the company might put the feelers out and see if the older staff would take voluntary redundantsy and go from there if it could be funded some way.

There has been a junior member of staff who is posting on Politics.ie who has been outlining what it is like in the company and how the seniors are intimidating the juniors and how there very much is a feeling that over the years the seniors have been pushing all the donkey work ontot he juniors to keep their earnings up whilst giving the juniors little chance, the more pain the juniors take the less the seniors do, which is not solidarity.

there is no evidence what soever that this chap ever worked for bus eireann. He may have and he may not have. So his claims are just that until it can actually be proven otherwise.

When I lived in Ireland it was controversy over them but the same people who are calling for increased tax funding to the companies are the same ones who did not want to pay property tax or water tax, they do not see the connection with the amount of tax being paid versus the amount of tax money that can be spent on public services.

Of course they see the connection. they just cannot afford to pay any more and they know that the property tax won't go on services. You know this. the cost of living in ireland is very high and people just haven't the money for any more taxes. they have had enough of taking the can for government's mismanagement of the country. They can't pay any more. It's as simple as that.

 

[F Great Eastern]

there is no evidence what soever that this chap ever worked for bus eireann. He may have and he may not have. So his claims are just that until it can actually be proven otherwise.

That's a strawman argument though - that could be argued about any poster on any forum posting any post at any time.

Of course they see the connection. they just cannot afford to pay any more and they know that the property tax won't go on services. You know this. the cost of living in ireland is very high and people just haven't the money for any more taxes. they have had enough of taking the can for government's mismanagement of the country. They can't pay any more. It's as simple as that.

So they don't want to pay more tax, but they want more tax to be spent.

Talk about dysfunctional.

 

[F Great Eastern]

http://www.thejournal.ie/wildcat-strike-could-happen-again-3316941-Mar2017/

THIS MORNING’S WILDCAT strike action which shut down many Irish Rail and Dublin Bus services came out of the blue for commuters – but could happen again.

While unions have distanced themselves from the action, saying that it was unsanctioned and unballoted, the strike represented a growing frustration among Bus Éireann staff who feel they are being ignored by the government and company management.

In conversations with multiple sources, TheJournal.ie has learned that the strike was planned on social media and messaging apps over the last week and saw NBRU members take up pickets at Dublin Bus and Irish Rail depots as early as 4am.

One source says that the choice of timing and location means that “there is no doubt this was highly orchestrated”.

They point to pickets at Fairview and Bray driver depots, which would have left Dart services crippled as an example of the coordination of the strike.

These depots are the starting points for many drivers, so their unwillingness to cross an NBRU picket would have left most drivers unable to perform their routes.

Siptu members involved in the Bus Eireann strike today said that they didn’t know the action was planned and stayed on their official pickets at Bus Eireann depots across the country.

Some of the Siptu workers questioned the tactic of the NBRU staff, but few argued with its effectiveness, particularly the strategy of disrupting morning traffic in the capital.

“A few lads left the official picket after a week, affected Dublin city and got more from Shane Ross than we have in a week. That says it all.”

Trade union Unite, which represents craft workers in Bus Éireann, stressed that this morning’s protest action was down to the ‘justifiable anger’ felt by workers at the ongoing refusal by Transport Minister Shane Ross to intervene in the dispute, which is now in its eighth day.

NBRU General Secretary Dermot O’Leary told TheJournal.ie that he was unaware of the action: “I have been clear and categorical that it was an unofficial wildcat action that we would not support. I woke up this morning to a lot of missed calls.

That said, I tried to explain to people that the longer this strike went on, something like this would happen. The people who conducted the action have a responsibility here, but the government and Department of Transport have the same responsibility.

“At the end of the day, we have to get around the table. If the pressure from today can bring that to bear, we’ll see.”

Getting around a table for talks is ostensibly what both sides want, but what if no talks are forthcoming?

Sources say that another wildcat is likely.

“You would hope it won’t come to that,” says one.

“But if they pressure dies down and there’s no deal? I wouldn’t bet against it.”
Earlier

Services are back to normal this evening, having been severely affected in Dublin and around the country.

The action lasted until 10am this morning – after rush hour had ended. The strikes continue as the stand-off between management and workers over pay conditions and proposed strategies to save the company from failing rumbles on.

Transport Minister Shane Ross called the action “entirely unjustifiable”.

“It’s just not on,” he added. “Ordinary bus workers did not want this to happen. The general public did not want this to happen.”

When asked what he would do beyond calling for picketers to desist today’s action and calling on all parties to come together to solve the dispute at Bus Éireann, Ross said he wouldn’t intervene himself.

 

[F Great Eastern]

School bus drivers to be balloted for action now.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Dublin Bus to get injunctions/sue the NBRU.

 

[Hornet]

Nice to see Brendan Ogle, the well known Irish Trade Unionist defending the Bus Eireann strike on the Late, Late last night. He epitomises your average Irish Trade Union Official. Looked back at a speech he made a few years ago. His views on the 'Haves' and 'Have not's' made interesting reading.

In a 20-minute speech he admitted that his members were “privileged and very lucky” describing examples of “gravy” that workers at state-owned ESB were given during the boom which allowed them to pay their mortgage off, buy “apartments in Bulgaria” and have “two or three cars”.

and

During the speech, Ogle also says: ”I’ve got a problem with the people that I represent who have power, because they also have money. They’re also – and they won’t mind me saying this because I say it to them often enough – they’re also spoilt.”

and the most interesting part.

The trade union movement collaborated in the creation of the wealth stroke debt and we made sure that the gap between that those who have and those who haven’t in society grew through the eighties, through the nineties, into the noughties to the day the IMF arrived on the door.
And the trade union movement and the Labour party collaborated in that for 25 years and none of us done anything about it.

http://www.thejournal.ie/watch-union-chief-admits-esb-staff-are-spoilt-211399-Aug2011/

The Labour Party here have been decimated by the Independents and Sinn Fein. Not surprising when those who purport to stand up for the weakest in society, (or need to get to work, Hospital appointments and School, as many could not do yesterday, due to the wildcat actions), end up kicking them in the teeth.

Why does Peter Sellers in "I'm All Right Jack" spring to mind.

 

[F Great Eastern]

He has history with transport as well, with the Irish Locomotive Drivers Association (now there is a story!)

 

[F Great Eastern]

Both sides have now accepted talks for a third time at the Workplace Relations Commission.

The union said they will do so but won't suspend the strike and will attend the talks on precondition that there are no route closures and the first item up for discussion is a review of management.

 

[robertclark125]

I'd have thought suspending the strike for the talks would have been the better approach. Have Bus Eireann made any preconditions ahead of talks?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Just that savings need to be made.

Unions now looking for restoration of terms and conditions.

Doesn't appear much common ground.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

RTE News have said that Shane Ross from the Government is now intervening after the Government initially said it wasn't going to get involved.

 

[F Great Eastern]

RTE News have said that Shane Ross from the Government is now intervening after the Government initially said it wasn't going to get involved.

What they actually said is he didn't intervene in the actual dispute since it started, but this brewed last year and he increased the PSO from €34m to €40m and he's said that he will ensure rural services are protected, but he's not going to actually intervene in the dispute.

Mr Ross told the Dáil about numerous ways in which he said he intervened in the dispute - by increasing funding to Public Service Obligation services last year and this year, ensuring equity and transparency among licensed operators and assuring rural Ireland of transport connectivity.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Whilst progress has been made the strike goes on and there is no end in sight.

Whilst there have been some agreements made by the unions in modern working practices to put to a ballot, there still have not been agreements in relation to the driving grade pay structure so there can be no ballot until this has been resolved.

There have been marathon talks about these things for last 5 days taking over 50 hours yet no agreement has yet been reached so following discussions at the Workplace Relations Commission failing, it will now be refereed to the Labour Court this afternoon for non binding arbitration.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There is a chance that an agreement may be reached today that can be put to ballot to members, who will meantime return to work whilst the ballot takes place.

Meanwhile Dublin Bus staff have now voted for strike action in a ballot and will be conducting a sympathy strike on dates yet to be confirmed.

 

[F Great Eastern]

- Labour court Issued recommendations (not issued publicly yet)
- Unions call strike off whilst it's debated and balloted for
- Dublin Bus Drivers have voted 67% to 33% to strike in Sympathy
- Irish Rail Sympathy Ballot to be completed on 21st April
- School bus drivers being balloted for around same time.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sounds more like life in England about 40 years ago!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Some services resumed tonight, others will in the morning.

Ruling

Mr Foley recommends a number of measures including some pay cuts, voluntary redundancies, work practice reforms and depot closures in a bid to restore the financial viability of Bus Éireann.

For the key driver grade, Mr Foley says that a minimum of 120 drivers take voluntary redundancy over the next 12 months, though that could rise depending on the level of full-time work available in each depot.

He advocates a composite rate of pay for drivers that will compensate for "all and any duties associated with the drivers' role".

He says that rate should be:

Year one of service: €17.37
Year two of service: €18.28
Year three of service: €19.20
Year four of service: €20.11
Bus Éireann has noted that the average length of service for drivers is 15 years, so most would be on the highest composite pay rate of €20.11.

Unions had originally sought a rate in excess of €23.00, while the company was offering €19.20.

All back office roles will be centralised, resulting in 48 redundancies among clerical grades, most of whom will also face an 18-month increment freeze.

The senior executive team of 116 will lose 22 posts, as well as working an extra three hours a week, and having an increment freeze for 18 months.

All executives earning over €60,000 will see a pay cut of 10%, and will forfeit four leave days.

The role of inspectors will change, and the number of inspectors will fall from 118 to 93.

Maintenance staff will be expected to work more flexibly. Part-time seasonal drivers will be used to plug inefficiencies and facilitate redundancies.

Staff must also cooperate with new technology and other changes.

Mr Foley notes that a fundamental element in the overall context is that over time, since the implementation of previous agreement, the optimisation of efficiencies has not been fully achieved.

While accepting that Bus Éireann must address its current cost base, Mr Foley said it is recognised that Bus Éireann will maintain premium terms and conditions of employment.

Core terms and conditions will be maintained.

Significantly, no additional rationalisation or restructuring will be proposed by the company before 2019, when there is the possibility that the National Transport Authority may put additional routes out to public tender.

There is a mechanism to provide some compensation for loss of earnings.

There is also a proposal for the establishment of a forum comprising all relevant stakeholders to work towards addressing the challenges facing Bus Éireann and public transport policy generally.

Mr Foley said that while the court has no role in this aspect of policy, it can endorse the proposition that such a forum has the potential to bring a clarity to factors affecting the company such that effective planning within the company can minimise the risk of a crisis of this nature emerging in the future.

Mr Foley also stressed the need to improve service efficiency and assure service continuity for customers.

 

[father_jack]

Flat batteries seems to be the biggest problem today !!!!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Full Recommendation here:
http://nbru.ie/union/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Labour-Court-Recommendation-No.-LCR21438.pdf

 

[F Great Eastern]

Company is insolvent and if the deal is not approved it probably will be the end.

 

[Mwanesh]

This is going to end badly.The union has been calling other operators rogue firms as if you can just buy a bus and pick passengers without registering.The drivers need to be able to come with ideas .Sometimes the unions will just drive hard bargains just to spite management.Once customers leave some wont come back.The

 

[Mwanesh]

Full Recommendation here:
http://nbru.ie/union/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Labour-Court-Recommendation-No.-LCR21438.pdf

looks like the unions have lost out .The Labour court seems to have nailed it on the head .

 

[robertclark125]

Is Bus Eireann now on life support? And if it does go bust, what future for CIE? Could t be dissolved, with its administration activities taken on by Dublin Bus and Irish Rail?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Rumour in the Sunday Business Post newspaper suggests the administrators will be called in straight away if deal is not accepted.

Unions appear to be risking everything on a last minute government bail out.

They've called for a three step plan to end this
1) Sectoral Employment Order making pre dispute Terms the minimum terms for the whole sector
2) Ban on private operators in the country or new licenses to private operators
3) Large increases in government funding.

Is Bus Eireann now on life support? And if it does go bust, what future for CIE? Could t be dissolved, with its administration activities taken on by Dublin Bus and Irish Rail?

Dublin Bus would be in much better situation than Bus Eireann even if it is not perfect, IR on the other hand I doubt are in a good situation, they are another company that need to massive improve and get with the times.

 

[Robertj21a]

Rumour in the Sunday Business Post newspaper suggests the administrators will be called in straight away if deal is not accepted.

Probably the best solution for the longer term. It's all dragged on for too long and there will never be any progress at the present rate of (not) doing things.

 

[TUC]

Sounds more like life in England about 40 years ago!

I was thinking the same, with all respect to Ireland. Sympathy strikes, labour courts, lameduck state industries ...

 

[robertclark125]

We hope the administrators don't get called in, but if they do, there are implications, both for public transport, and government.

 

[DT611]

I was thinking the same, with all respect to Ireland. Sympathy strikes, labour courts, lameduck state industries ...

I know which system i'd rather. And it's the one with labour courts and the very rare sympathy strike. And a state operator meaning we don't have a private only ideal in terms of transport.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I believe in a system that serves the passenger and gives the population good value for the money that they pay in taxes, unfortunately the current system does neither because by default BE claim that every single city bus and commuter bus route in Ireland is not viable and must need PSO just because they say so.

Here in the UK the system is broken, but the idea of the bus being commercial and if the commercial operators don't pick it up it is tendered is a far better way of doing things than just simply saying the bus is not viable without anyone having a go of proving otherwise as is the case in Ireland.

This table is really shocking:

Subsidy per passenger journey

Ireland
Bus Eireann - €1.03
Dublin Bus - €0.47

UK
London - 23.5p
English metropolitan areas - 12.1p
English non-metropolitan areas - 15.0p

That's before you take into account the fact that the difference is greater in reality since in the UK the operators have to fund their own fleet whereas in Ireland that is one cost that doesn't exist.