Cross Country Guard on 1S51

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by nat67, 16 May 2018.

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  1. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    On Monday the 14th May, me and FishQuinn where out and found that 1S51 Plymouth-Glasgow was running late and caught an XC 170 from Derby to Tamworth. We asked the Guard on the 170 if we could buy a ticket on the train he said yes and was all fine. We got of at Tamworth and waited for the HST. And the guard on the HST was looking at FishQuinn's ticket as I was in the other vestibule at the time he came round. He then asked who is the railcard (F&F) holder who was me and claimed that there needed to be a adult as I had a 16-25 railcard underneath. He lost that one then claimed that you have an invalid railcard but was bought before FishQuinn turned 16 so is valid until it runs out. He also claimed the FishQuinn needed ID but he is 16 so he doesn't need it and lost that one too. And through all that forgot to check the ticket. We bought a Derby- Tamworth return.
     
    Last edited: 16 May 2018
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  3. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    sorry nat67 can you look at your post and edit it a bit i'm not following it all
     
  4. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    Neither am I and I was there when it happened :lol:

    This is what happened (as Nat seemingly wants to say).
    The two of us were making a day return from Derby to Tamworth using a family and friends railcard. Before boarding the train from Derby to Tamworth (a Cross Country 170) I asked the guard if he could sell us a ticket on board as the train was due to leave in 2 minutes and we hadn't yet purchased one to Tamworth. He was fine with this and sold it to us on board and we had no further trouble on the ride to Tamworth, where a short wait was had for the 40 minutes late 12:25 Plymouth-Glasgow service ('1S51').
    This service was busy so we ended up stood in the vestibule, me in one and Nat67 in the one next to it (so two separate coaches). The guard got to me first and I showed him my ticket. He noticed that I held the child part of a family and friends discounted ticket yet also had my other railcard on view so got confused and asked if I was using that, to which I replied no and said that I was using the family and friends railcard that Nat held (who had come into the same vestibule as me at this point). He asked how old I was and I replied with 16, leading to him saying that I couldn't use the family and friends railcard if I was 16. I told him that the family and friends railcard T&Cs clearly state that a family and friends railcard can be used until the child turns 17 if the railcard was bought before they turn 16 (which he didn't query oddly enough).
    He then turned to Nat and apparently didn't believe that he was the railcard holder until Nat showed him his YP railcard and proved that the names matched (why you'd question that I don't know). He then asked when I turned 17 which I replied to truthfully and then asked if I had any ID (I didn't) before saying that it's compulsory to carry ID when travelling on a child ticket. I told him it wasn't and he then just left.

    Sorry about that essay but I hope it shows what Nat67 was trying to say a little better.
     
  5. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    So all in all, not a dispute or prosecution, just an understandable gap in knowledge from the guard. May be worth tweeting XC with the background and suggesting they put a general staff bulletin out. Although I’ve never heard of trains requiring ID for persons wanting child fare. Local buses, yes, but not trains.
     
  6. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    Maybe for the F+F railcard can be used by a 16 year old part, but the "it's compulsory to carry ID when travelling on a child ticket" is total nonsense that was almost certainly made up on the spot. That along with the initial "doubt" that the F+F card was being used by its rightful owner makes it seem that the guard/RPI was just looking for an excuse to extort some money. (With the usual caveat that we only have one side of the story, etc.)
     
  7. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    A very small minority of railway staff once they have made a mistake (be it a genuine mistake or on a small number of ocassions a deliberate one to try to extract money out of people who they think they can bully into doing so) will not be happy with being corrected so will then try to pursue things from a different angle and will resort to completely making things up if these avenues fail.

    Only yesterday I received some choice mildly patronising words from a guard (not XC) who used no less than 3 completely and utterly made up rules to claim a ticket I was using was not valid on the route I was taking (despite it being mapped, available on their own website without using a via point, and their social media team saying it was valid) . I beat him with fact at every single rule until they became so obscure and ludicrous that it was pointless trying to argue. If I’m honest they behaviour exhibited towards me and another passenger with a bicycle made me question whether he should be in that role.
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    nat67 - It is very difficult to understand some of your posts so my advice is to ask someone to proof read them before posting. Also please ensure posts are easily readable and understandable to someone who has no knowledge of headcodes, acronyms and other codes.
    The Guard is clearly incorrect.

    There is no requirement to carry ID.

    As for the F&F railcard, it sounds like he forgot the rule, but once reminded of it, was OK with it?

    Anyway it is absolutely OK for a 16 year old to use a F&F discounted child ticket providing the Railcard was bought before they turned 16, and I am also aware that a small number of Guards are unfamiliar with this condition.
     
  9. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    Presumably - he didn't mention it after I told him the rule.
     
  10. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    I could have told him that we needed to buy the railcard on our North East rover as a TPE revenue protection inspector had a problem with us using a F&F without it being under my name (it was FishQuinn's dad's). So we had to buy a new one which FishQuinn was still 15 at the time.
    Sorry about the misunderstanding.
     
    Last edited: 16 May 2018
  11. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    That's hardly surprising as the named railcard holder does need to be present.
     
  12. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    We didn't know that at the time but now we know so we could prove the XC guard wrong.
     
  13. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    OK I think we've come to a conclusion in this thread, so I'll lock it there.
     
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