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Cross Country in the 1990's

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Greenback

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The various threads on XC, and the recent one asking for extra carraiges in particular, have caused me to think about some of my journeys under BR and Virgin across the network in the 1990's.

For a large part of the decade my brother was based in the West Country, whihc meant regular trips down from Bristol Parkway. I also enjoyed exploring Scotland several times, always involving a trip on either the WCML or ECML, but always including XC!

One of most memorable journeys was on leaving Glasgow Central at about 1610 on a LHCS service in the middle of March (I think) 1994. There was snow on the ground, and it was both beautiful and eerie to look out at the hills of the Lake District as the light faded.

I also remember leaving Totnes on a busy HST on a Sunday lunchtime in 1991. As the TM ran through the list of calling points to Scotland, I was hit with a real sense of adventure. How tempted I was to stay on the train and journey northwards, instead of alighting at bristol parkway and returning to south wales! I don;t think I;d been to Scotland at that point; that journey probably did more to entice me to go than anything else!

I remember taking the Thames Valley route for the first time in 1995, from Birmingham to Reading on a Tuesday lunchtime, and back the following afternoon. Even then the trains, which were HST's, were very busy, and there were hardly any spare seats in my carriage as we left Reading. Things got even busier at Oxford!

Not all the trains were full though. There used to be a very useful train that left Swansea at around 0745 in the early 1990's, which I caught a few times to York. It was a 47 and coaches whenver I used it, but being sandwiched between London trains at 0732 and 0802 most of the time, it never attracted a lot of passengers, save for a handful of long distance travellers like myself and a few commuting to Cardiff who must have found the times more convenient.

I also took a Virgin HST from Reading to Bournemouth on a Friday afternoon in 1999, which to my great surprise was very quiet. I expected a healthier loading than what I guessed was around 20% in my carraige, especially as it was a Summer weekend and Bournemouth had a very good reputation for nightlife at the time.

On the whole, though, the trains that I used were well filled (even the 0745 ex Swansea got full after Bristol), reasonably priced and comfortable. What a shame that nowadays I avoid XC wherever I can, as it is usually cheaper, faster and far more comfortable to use other routes.

Does anyone else have good or bad memories of the 1990's on XC?
 
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sprinterguy

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I tended to use Crosscountry for short hops around north east England in the days before Voyagers (Newcastle to Durham was a favourite one); any longer distance trips had a propensity to make use of Intercity East Coast/GNER. That is in stark contrast to my current semi-regular "long haul" journeys on Crosscountry of up to three or four hours, what a shame I was too young to have a need to make such trips a decade or more a go!

I remember waiting at Newcastle station for a heavily delayed terminating service from the south which was to take me south on its' next departure: Eventually, into platform 4 rolls a Virgin liveried 47, hauling a complete West Coast mark 2 rake, complete with DVT coupled behind the loco! Given that at the time my observations of the WCML consisted at best of a roughly bi-annual trip to Penrith and a very occasional foray to Carlisle, the sight of a Virgin liveried DVT seemed like something quite exotic! The train must have been running very late, as from memory it didn't seem like it waited around long after we boarded despite the usual long layovers the terminating services were meant to have in Newcastle. The seats and the interior were a bit scruffy but the train was very well loaded IIRC, and I can remember watching the loco at the head of the train being worked flat out as it rounded the tight curves between Chester-le-Street and Durham, and emitting clouds of black clag skywards.

The old Crosscountry operation also gave me my first brush with the then fledgling "Fragonset Railways", at that time just newly risen from the Waterman Railways operation (Must have been in about 1997): Into platform 3 at Newcastle, having run via Gateshead and the High Level Bridge to arrive facing south ready for its' next journey, trundled a BR green liveried 47488, atop a failed Virgin 47 and the usual mark 2 rake. However instead of the usual British Railways "ferret and dartboard" emblem on the bodyside, was a strange, red dragon logo encircled by the words "Fragonset Railways": The first time I was made aware of the existance of that then small spot-hire company.

Crosscountry 47s were relatively rare birds in north east England, being concentrated as they were on the Manchester/Glasgow to the South East trips, so I had many more dealings with the Crosscountry HSTs. It was sad to watch the decline of these once proud beasts as Virgin ran them into the ground prior to the squadron introduction of Voyagers. They were looking very sorry for themselves both inside and out by the time the end came (August 2003 I think); reduced to five car formation, stripped of all their logos and looking like they hadn't seen a washing plant in months.

A lot of my memories of Intercity and early Virgin Crosscountry are pretty sketchy, but I don't remember any of the trains I travelled on being particularly empty. I do remember a lot of late running and generally scruffy train interiors though.

Finally, does anybody else remember the very short lived Virgin "silver lady" logo that was applied to a few HST power cars and class 90s in about 1999? There was also some publicity material from around the same time that showed the logo on the cabsides of Pendolino mock-ups. I can't find any decent quality images of it these days; I've got a couple of pictures of HSTs that feature it in the background, but nothing particularly clear. I occasionally wonder why that logo enjoyed such a short life, especially when it came into being just after Virgin had got rid of the TOC specific "XC" branding on the HSTs that also lasted a very short amount of time.
 

142094

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Used to go down to Newcastle Central every Thursday for a few hours to watch the trains. Virgin XC were still using the 47s, most went to what seemed like exotic places such at the time such as Bristol TM, Paignton and other places in the SW. Sometimes the 47 would come in over the King Edward and leave via the High Level, other times it would do a run around over the bridges and go back over the same one. One of the names that sticks in the memory is The Lion of Vienna.
 

142094

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47807! If my memory serves me right :D

Aye that sounds right. Same here - wasn't old enough to go on one alone, but did cab a 47, a 47 thunderbird in platform 12 before the 67s took over and the Royal Mail EMU. Don't think drivers are too happy to allow that these days!
 

Yew

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Aye that sounds right. Same here - wasn't old enough to go on one alone, but did cab a 47, a 47 thunderbird in platform 12 before the 67s took over and the Royal Mail EMU. Don't think drivers are too happy to allow that these days!

Im sure drivers would be more than happy to, however there will be someone higher up who wont :/
 

sprinterguy

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Aye that sounds right. Same here - wasn't old enough to go on one alone, but did cab a 47, a 47 thunderbird in platform 12 before the 67s took over and the Royal Mail EMU. Don't think drivers are too happy to allow that these days!
Happy days with the RES 47 Thunderbird chugging away, ticking over in platform 12 when my Gran used to take me up to Newcastle to watch the trains when I was a kid.:) Never cabbed any of them, but I did cab a GB 66 in platform 11 when it was on driver training one day. Cabbed one of Royal Mails' 325s at Warrington RMT just a month or so ago while the driver was on layover waiting to take it back to Sheildmuir, so there's still drivers willing to let you have a look around. But anyway, I'm just digressing into general childhood memories now, which I suppose when remembering "the old days" of Crosscountry was always going happen!
 

4SRKT

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When did the term Cross Country start being used? We used to call it NESW in the '80s?
 

Greenback

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I would think NESW stopped being appropriate with the increase in services to the north west and south coast. Certainly by the start of the 1990's it was known as Inter City Cross Country.
 

yorksrob

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I can't remember ever getting a 125 on Cross Country in pre-Voyager days (barely ever post). Always a rake of Mk 2's and a loco.
 

4SRKT

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There were loads of HSTs on NESW/XC workings from some time in the mid-1980s. Northbound from New Street in the 1987 book there is:

07:15 Newcastle HST
08:00 Leeds HST
09:00 Newcastle HST
10:30 Leeds HST
11:30 Newcastle HST
12:50 Manchester loco-hauled
13:00 Newcastle HST
14:00 York HST
14:55 Newcastle loco-hauled
14:58 Glasgow/Dundee loco-hauled
16:00 Leeds HST
16:45 York HST
17:10 Glasgow/Edinburgh loco-hauled
17:45 Newcastle HST
18:45 York HST
19:45 Bradford Interchange HST
22:00 York HST
23:55 Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper

And that's it for the day. Makes today's half hourly services to Manchester and Newcastle look incredible!
 

Matt Taylor

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I worked on XC during the mid 1990s and have some great memories from my very short stint with them, I was Bournemouth based and used to lodge in the Central hotel at Glasgow Central two or three times a week or sometimes in the European Hotel in Derby if it was a weekend job.

Grabbed some pretty serious 47 and 86 haulage back then, plus the odd 87 and even a Class 60 at one point!
 

LE Greys

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I would think NESW stopped being appropriate with the increase in services to the north west and south coast. Certainly by the start of the 1990's it was known as Inter City Cross Country.

Wasn't it inter-regional for some time, along with Trans-Pennine.

I've got some nice video footage of a Virgin-liveried 47835 running round her train at Reading. Last time I ever saw a 47 in Virgin service. I'd love to have seen XC 50s, but I suppose they were non-standard, despite being faster.
 

Greenback

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Itw as inter-regional before sectorisation, when it became par tof Inter City. IIRC, it was included with the MML for operating and admin purposes.
 

exile

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Edinburgh to Bristol via Newcastle, Sheffield and Birmingham in 1975. Left about 10am and arrived around 5pm - class 47 and mark II's I think. Before the mid 70s there weren't many what we would recognise as "cross country" workings other than Summer Saturday services.
 

4SRKT

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My 1969 Western Region Timetable has a not bad selection of NESW services. Going north:

01:10 Bristol TM > Sheffield
05:50 Bristol TM > Sheffield
07:30 Bristol TM > Leeds
08:20 Cardiff C > Newcastle
06:10 Plymouth > Sheffield
07:40 Plymouth > Newcastle
11:20 Cardiff C > Sheffield
10:10 Paignton > Bradford Exchange
12:10 Swansea > Newcastle
08:10 Penzance > Liverpool LS
09:50 Penzance > Bradford Exchange
14:30 Taunton > Newcastle
13:55 Plymouth > Leeds
16:05 Swansea > York
15:35 Paignton > Sheffield
16:15 Plymouth > Liverpool
19:25 Plymouth > Newcastle sleeper
17:55 Penzance > Manchester (sleeping cars Plymouth > Manchester).
 

4SRKT

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No, it's the Mon-Fri timetable for May 69 to May 70. The service on summer Saturdays was much more extensive:

01:10 Bristol > Sheffield
05:50 Bristol > Scarborough (via Doncaster and Hull avoider).
07:30 Bristol > Leeds
08:20 Cardiff > Newcastle
06:10 Plymouth > York
07:40 Plymouth > Newcastle
08:05 Paignton > Nottingham
09:05 Paignton > Newcastle
08:52 Kingswear > Leeds
10:03 Teignmouth > Manchester
10:38 Paignton > Bradford (non-stop Torquay > Birmingham)
07:25 Newquay > Manchester (via Newport avoider and Hereford)
11:05 Newton Abbot > Leeds
07:45 Penzance > Liverpool
13:10 Weston-super-Mare > Leeds
08:55 Newquay > Newcastle
11:30 Paignton > Manchester (via Newport avoider and Hereford)
11:45 Paignton > Nottingham
08:45 Penzance > Wolverhampton
09:30 Penzance > Bradford
12:37 Weymouth > Derby (via Westbury and Bristol)
09:50 Penzance > Manchester
14:05 Swansea > York
13:40 Paignton > Sheffield
11:20 Penzance > Leeds
12:10 Newquay > Nottingham
14:50 Paignton > Coventry (DMU I think!)
16:05 Swansea > York
15:40 Paignton > Sheffield
13:30 Penzance > Liverpool
19:25 Bristol > Newcastle
17:55 Penzance > Manchester

This doesn't include anything that might have come from the south coast via Reading, as they would be in the Southern Region book in the days when each region issued its own timetables. It also seems to be before the summer Saturday York > Tenby workings I remember from my youth in the 1980s, although Tenby does have a holiday working to Paddington in the 1969 book.

EDIT: 1985 timetable has summer Saturdays only 08:58 Tenby > Newcastle and 12:03 Newcastle > Tenby HST workings.
 
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Blindtraveler

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memories from childhood of VXC mk2s and HSTs. A bit ot here, but did virgin ever internally refurbish any of there stock at the start of there franchise? If so what was done? Or did they just wate for the new stock
 

rail-britain

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did virgin ever internally refurbish any of there stock at the start of there franchise? If so what was done? Or did they just wate for the new stock
Very light refurbishment
New seat covers
Some had new carpets fitted
One bay of seats towards the centre in Standard Class was also removed in favour of a luggage rack
 

yorksrob

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Very light refurbishment
New seat covers
Some had new carpets fitted
One bay of seats towards the centre in Standard Class was also removed in favour of a luggage rack

I always found the bluey - green colour scheme very pleasing to the eye.
 
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