Cross London Minimum Time Validity

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boultonmark

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Hi

I was on raileasy searching for fares between York and Brighton. Its journey planner suggested YRK to KGX then the tube between KGX & VIC and then train again VIC to BTN. For the tube part it said:

Change time 30 mins (presumably 15mins interchange time for KGX, 15 for VIC)
11 mins transit time

or 41mins in total



Now I understand these times are in the timetable data including the 11mins tube time. My question is: are these legal minimums? i.e if I had a through ticket that included tube would it be invalid if the itinerary gave less than 41 mins between getting off at KGX and boarding the next train at VIC.

My interest was further piqued when I saw that NRE had variable times, e.g in the evenings 11mins became 16mins but also it has "Allow less time to transfer through London" tick box....
 
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CyrusWuff

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The minimum cross London interchange times are here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1315636 As you can see it should be 56 minutes. I don't know quite what led to it giving that ininerary.

It should be noted that the table has been withdrawn from the National Rail Timetable in recent years, and replaced with the following:

eNRT said:
The time taken to travel between London's stations will vary from journey to journey dependent on distance, mode of transport, time of day and the need to change en route. The quickest way to cross London is usually by the Underground network with frequent services operating between the following hours*:

s 0530 TO 0015 ON Monday to Friday
s 0630 TO 0115 ON Saturday
s 0700 TO 0001 ON Sunday

(* Times shown are approximate)

Buses also link many of London’s main terminal stations including an extensive network of night bus services.

Which is, of course, wholly unhelpful when it comes to determining a "valid" connection...

Hint: The 20 minutes that someone had allowed to connect out of a train from East Croydon into an Advance on a long distance train from one of the terminals along the Euston Road was decreed invalid when he missed his train by fifteen minutes due to a cancellation.
 

pt15sb

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Can't we utilise the sum of the published fixed links and minimum connection times?

Minimum connection time is 15 minutes at both King's Cross and Victoria. According to brtimes.com the fixed links for King's Cross to Victoria is:

TRANSFER From 0001 until 0529 21 minutes
TUBE From 0529 until 0659 16 minutes
TUBE From 0700 until 1900 11 minutes
TUBE From 1901 until 2359 16 minutes

So 41 minutes is seemingly the valid minimum in between 0700 - 1900, just as the original poster found in the itinerary given.
 

maniacmartin

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You're perfectly allowed to transfer in less than the minimum transfer times if you wish and catch an earlier train. However you would not be able to reclaim any delay compensation if you missed your connection because you hadn't allowed the minimum amount of time
 

paul1609

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In practice heading southbound 41 mins is ample time because of the frequency of services on both the Victoria Line and Victoria to Brighton. As an old hand Id reckon to off peak make a Victoria Departure 25 mins after arrival at Kings Cross including Coffee purchase.
 

Muzer

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You're perfectly allowed to transfer in less than the minimum transfer times if you wish and catch an earlier train. However you would not be able to reclaim any delay compensation if you missed your connection because you hadn't allowed the minimum amount of time
And, of course, if you have an advance ticket, you're not entitled to catch the next service; you instead must buy a new ticket.
 

maniacmartin

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And, of course, if you have an advance ticket, you're not entitled to catch the next service; you instead must buy a new ticket.

You should not ever be sold an Advance with a too-tight connection though
 

PermitToTravel

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There's at least one station where a bug in the data will cause advances with ludicrous connections to be sold
 

swt_passenger

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You should not ever be sold an Advance with a too-tight connection though

I think the issue is people booking their Advance legs either side of London separately - they need a readily available source of the minimum transfer time that they must allow, and if that table from the NRTT is no longer current, what should they now refer to?
 
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