crosscountry expensive!

[43067]

just bought my tickets for going home beginning of august, so what i hear you say but how can cross country justify charging £120 for a return ticket from plymouth to eaglescliffe. So being the tight northerner that i am decided to shop around (red coloured cloth is the website). have now paid £63 return for my tickets. admittedly i am on the 0553 FGW PLY to PAD arr 0900, but i get the trusty 1123 KGX to EAG GC service arr 1404. Can crosscountry honestly say that they are competative when it comes to ticket pricing. some how i don't think so anyone else think they're a bit pricey.

 

[EM2]

383 miles each way, so 766 in total.
£120 works out at 15p a mile. Sounds like good value to me.
Not saying that £63 isn't a lot better, of course!

 

[Darandio]

Given that the cost of fuel to drive that return journey by car doesn't come to much less than the £120 fare, I'm not sure what you are complaining about here. Add 750+ miles of wear, tear and tyres, it may cost about the same. Therefore, a £120 ticket for that journey isn't that uncompetetive at all.

 

[43067]

I'm not complaining i'm just saying that if we shop around we can get a better deal than plumping for the most direct route with one TOC. add to the fact i did the same journey WITH XC booking 8 weeks in advance before last year and payed nowhere near £120 then i think it is uncompetative. but each to there own i suppose.

apologies i had misread the pricing it was £128.10 one way! for the train i could get. and the return was £58.

 

[SS4]

If people buy the Anytime tickets then crosscountry will get away with it. Currently the revenue (r) XC get is number of customers (n)* ticket price (p) * some ratio from ORCATS (k).
r = npk

Now suppose p goes up by a given amount relative to p - we'll call it x so the new price is p' = (1+x)p. k will stay the same (for simplification and it shouldn't change much) so the new revenue is:
r' = n'p'k = n'(1+x)pk

For revenue to be equal before and after the price change r = r'
npk = n'(1+x)pk

We want to work out the number of people (n') that is needed to break even as defined above
n' = n/(1+x)

To use an example if the price doubles (x=1) then n' = n/2 so as long as half of people pay the new price XC will break even in terms of revenue. Of course they may still get some revenue from other operator's fare.
nb: Advance tickets make this more difficult to judge because of how k changes


I'll get my coat

 

[Donny Dave]

First up, I'm assuming you have 16-25 railcard, as there is no £120 fare for Plymout - Eaglescliffe. The nearest prices I can find (with YPR discount) is £113.35 Off peak (valid not via London) or £131.50 Super off peak (valid via London).

Secondly, after doing some rough calculations** You'll need just over £115 for fuel if driving from Plymouth - Eaglescliffe and back. So both of these fares are better value for money compared to driving, especially if you get delayed (as you'll possibly be able to get some money back). If you get delayed on the motorway however, it will likey cost you more due to increased fuel useage.

**Figures based on 383 miles each way, 40 miles to the gallon and a price of £6 a gallon.

 

[43067]

First up, I'm assuming you have 16-25 railcard, as there is no £120 fare for Plymout - Eaglescliffe. The nearest prices I can find (with YPR discount) is £113.35 Off peak (valid not via London) or £131.50 Super off peak (valid via London).

Secondly, after doing some rough calculations** You'll need just over £115 for fuel if driving from Plymouth - Eaglescliffe and back. So both of these fares are better value for money compared to driving, especially if you get delayed (as you'll possibly be able to get some money back). If you get delayed on the motorway however, it will likey cost you more due to increased fuel useage.

**Figures based on 383 miles each way, 40 miles to the gallon and a price of £6 a gallon.

David i'm using a HM Forces railcard for the journey if that helps

it would be nice to be in that age bracket again lol sadly i'm a lot older now

 

[Squaddie]

£120 would not be an unreasonable fare for a journey of that length if the trains were comfortable and the journey a pleasant one. But simply working out the cost per mile without taking into account the quality of the product is a deeply flawed analysis: even by the low standards of the UK rail industry, XC's trains are uncomfortable and unpleasant, and the quoted fare is nothing short of robbery. The fact that you can pay less for a longer journey on better train companies simply adds insult to injury.

You'll need just over £115 for fuel if driving from Plymouth - Eaglescliffe and back. So both of these fares are better value for money compared to driving...

Cheaper, perhaps. But value for money? Debatable.

 

[EM2]

Cheaper, perhaps. But value for money? Debatable.

What do you expect for 15p a mile? I probably cause more than 15p's worth of wear to the soles of my shoes if I walk a mile

 

[Squaddie]

What do you expect for 15p a mile?

First class TGV from Paris to Hendaye, perhaps? I paid about €65 for this 400-mile journey just a few weeks ago.

 

[ainsworth74]

First class TGV from Paris to Hendaye, perhaps? I paid about €65 for this 400-mile journey just a few weeks ago.

Out of curiosity was this a walk up ticket or one that you could only buy in advance? Just to ensure we're comparing like with like.

 

[34D]

What do you expect for 15p a mile? I probably cause more than 15p's worth of wear to the soles of my shoes if I walk a mile

Assume 4 tyres cost £300. Assume they are down to the minimum after 20,000 miles. That is £0.012 per mile, or for a 766 mile trip £9.19.

If you are in the motor trade, please do correct me if a 25,000 mile life for tyres is way out.

 

[bnm]

Here we go. Another thread with fatuous arguments about the cost of road versus rail. :roll:

Do we even know whether 'road' is an option for the OP?

 

[Wath Yard]

In AXC's rather pointless Facebook meet the manager session this was just about the only worthwhile answer they gave when it cropped up. As they correctly stated, EC, VWC, and probably FGW have a lot more off-peak capacity than AXC, therefore they can offer cheaper tickets via London compared to AXC's direct route.

 

[43067]

Here we go. Another thread with fatuous arguments about the cost of road versus rail. :roll:

Do we even know whether 'road' is an option for the OP?

I'm afraid rail is the only option i have as i don't own a car. and getting a lift is a bit hit and miss. and it certainly wasn't my intention to start a rail v road argument, i was just saying i thought the prices quoted by AXC were on the expensive side compared to going via London which used to cost alot more for transiting the capital.

 

[alastair]

First class TGV from Paris to Hendaye, perhaps? I paid about €65 for this 400-mile journey just a few weeks ago.

Paris to Hendaye is actually around 500 miles. This would have been a "Prems" fare which is like an advance in the UK. It can only be booked on line at raileurope.com and cannot be refunded or changed. An odd feature of these fares is that first class is sometimes very little more than standard.

Certainly excellent value.

 

[calc7]

Paris to Hendaye is actually around 500 miles. This would have been a "Prems" fare which is like an advance in the UK. It can only be booked on line at raileurope.com and cannot be refunded or changed. An odd feature of these fares is that first class is sometimes very little more than standard.

Certainly excellent value.

Maybe for France, but not necessarily the UK. Several of the InterCity operators (notably EMT, FGW and not infrequently Virgin Trains) often have Advance 1sts at less than or little more than the Standard Class equivalent on many trains (distributed at random it appears sometimes!)

I suspect this is a combination of people not searching for First Class fares (with the belief that STD is always cheaper), some companies only allowing Standard Class business travel (with the mistaken belief that STD always offers better value for money) or some people believing that First Class isn't for them.

 

[yorkie]

It is true that XC-priced through tickets can be a very expensive option when compared to alternatives.

I don't think that the justifications for the high fares are helpful, but at the same time, the original post could have been clearer and more descriptive.

As it is, we can't really glean much information about what the tickets purchased actually are, but we can guess that they are a combination of Advance Singles, or perhaps Advance Singles between Plymouth & London and an Off Peak Return from London to Eaglescliffe (routed GC Only). David was able to deduce that a Railcard discount was being applied too.

I would always advise people to "shop around" when booking a long-distance XC journey, don't just accept the fare if it seems high.

 

[EM2]

Assume 4 tyres cost £300. Assume they are down to the minimum after 20,000 miles. That is £0.012 per mile, or for a 766 mile trip £9.19.

If you are in the motor trade, please do correct me if a 25,000 mile life for tyres is way out.

And what about petrol, oil, screenwash, wear and tear on other consumables such as brake shoes or wiper blades?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Cross Country do seem to be steep for longer journies. The OP could get a return flight from Exeter to Newcastle for around £100, so their competition isn't just from other train companies and whether people decide to drive.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And what about petrol, oil, screenwash, wear and tear on other consumables such as brake shoes or wiper blades?

..and what about if four of you are travelling - £480 in train fares ?... you could buy an old banger for that and throw it away afterwards.

 

[exile]

As a rough guide I tend to price car journeys at from 40p a mile for a short journey (10 miles or less) to 20p a mile for a long one (100 miles or more). This is "marginal" costs ie not including insurance and tax but including an element of depreciation and wear and tear plus fuel.

 

[EM2]

..and what about if four of you are travelling - £480 in train fares ?... you could buy an old banger for that and throw it away afterwards.

Indeed you could (and hope it doesn't break down). And in that case, the train is not the best option.
But in this instance, there's one person travelling.

 

[neilmc]

I find, as a general rule, that for an individual train fares often approximate to the cost of motoring, or, travelling off-peak in the North, would be slightly less.

But once you have a second person in the car, the motorist saves money. Economics of madness, but until we're prepared to fund our transport networks properly, one which will remain.

 

[Wath Yard]

I don't think that the justifications for the high fares are helpful, but at the same time, the original post could have been clearer and more descriptive.

You might not find it helpful, but it is a fact. The Voyagers are too short and Arriva, whoever runs the franchise next, and XC passengers will have to live with the poor decisions of the previous franchise holder for many years to come.

 

[Clip]

For that sort of journey I would always plump for the more direct route rather than via London. If I was doing such a journey it would be inevitable that I would be having luggage in my possession and sod having to traverse the tube with luggage. I cant bear people who do it now so the benefits far outweighs the costs to me.