CrossCountry Summer Services

[ainsworth74]

I've been having a poke around RTT and it appears that XC aren't really running any of their usual summer extra services? Things like Glasgow to Penzance or services to Newquay? Is this correct or have they not taken a decision on whether they can run or not?

 

[PHILIPE]

I've been having a poke around RTT and it appears that XC aren't really running any of their usual summer extra services? Things like Glasgow to Penzance or services to Newquay? Is this correct or have they not taken a decision on whether they can run or not?

It is a decision that has probably been influenced by COVID

 

[43096]

It is a decision that has probably been influenced by COVID

You mean everyone's got to holiday in the UK this year because of the travel restrictions so the railway decides, in its time-honoured lack-of-customer-service style, that it can't be bothered taking them where they want to go?

 

[ainsworth74]

You mean everyone's got to holiday in the UK this year because of the travel restrictions so the railway decides, in its time-honoured lack-of-customer-service style, that it can't be bothered taking them where they want to go?

I must admit, considering this is year is supposed to be about the 'staycation', I find it somewhat bizarre that they're not running the services they usually would in the summer. Hence the question because surely this isn't a decision its just a delay? Which is still far from ideal but different to just not doing it...

 

[Ianno87]

You mean everyone's got to holiday in the UK this year because of the travel restrictions so the railway decides, in its time-honoured lack-of-customer-service style, that it can't be bothered taking them where they want to go?

Depends whether that's the extremities like Cornwall, or whether capacity would be better focused on the core cities for the city break market.

The UK holiday market isn't just about West of Plymouth.

 

[D6975]

They seem to have decided not to switch any Plymouths to Paignton this summer on Saturdays. That's a bit odd IMHO.

 

[berneyarms]

Depends whether that's the extremities like Cornwall, or whether capacity would be better focused on the core cities for the city break market.

The UK holiday market isn't just about West of Plymouth.

I think that you're probably right - capacity is being focussed on the core section of the Cross-Country route, as opposed to the extremities. Aren't more services being operated by double voyagers?

Looking at the timetable, the full complement of regular services have not been restored to/from Dundee, Glasgow Central, Edinburgh, Plymouth or Penzance yet, so it's not really surprising that the summer services haven't been restored yet.

 

[NSE]

Do that many people take the train though? Living in London I have prime access to all London terminals for a journey direct to any ‘holiday’ spot. Me and my family and/or mates never take the train. It’s just too expensive. Solo, yes I take it, but that’s because I like trains. I also think people are keen to stick to their cars to reduce mixing with the public currently. So I don’t think it’s a big deal on poor customer service as some make out.

 

[dk1]

These trains can be very busy indeed with plenty alighting at Dawlish, Teignmouth, Torquay & Paignton. The subject has been discussed already on the ‘May 2021 Timetable Change’ thread.

 

[Martin_1981]

I must admit, considering this is year is supposed to be about the 'staycation', I find it somewhat bizarre that they're not running the services they usually would in the summer. Hence the question because surely this isn't a decision its just a delay? Which is still far from ideal but different to just not doing it...

I don't think they have the rolling stock or staffing resources to run the summer services. Voyagers are running as double sets on many trains to help with social distancing and the days of being able to hire in HSTs from the midland mainline and east coast franchises are long gone. That said, I don't see why they can't divert the 2 Plymouth HST'S to Paignton as that wouldn't require additional resources.

 

[Ianno87]

I don't think they have the rolling stock or staffing resources to run the summer services. Voyagers are running as double sets on many trains to help with social distancing and the days of being able to hire in HSTs from the midland mainline and east coast franchises are long gone. That said, I don't see why they can't divert the 2 Plymouth HST'S to Paignton as that wouldn't require additional resources.

Depends where the demand is; do more passenger benefit from an hourly train to/from Plymouth, when Paignton is an easy change at Newton Abbot (yes, yes, I get "people don't like changing trains").

I think that you're probably right - capacity is being focussed on the core section of the Cross-Country route, as opposed to the extremities. Aren't more services being operated by double voyagers?

Looking at the timetable, the full complement of regular services have not been restored to/from Dundee, Glasgow Central, Edinburgh, Plymouth or Penzance yet, so it's not really surprising that the summer services haven't been restored yet.

Also, the timetable planning resource to implement all of this.

 

[Martin_1981]

Depends where the demand is; do more passenger benefit from an hourly train to/from Plymouth, when Paignton is an easy change at Newton Abbot (yes, yes, I get "people don't like changing trains").



Also, the timetable planning resource to implement all of this.

It might be that more passengers benefit from the hourly Plymouth service as there will no doubt be a lot of people heading to Cornwall. Makes you wonder if this arrangement will continue on summer Saturdays permanently in future years.

 

[DarloRich]

Can we not just rustle up a 31/37/47 and a couple of mkii's?

 

[IanXC]

For the likes of Paignton and Newquay one also has to question how XC crew maintain route knowledge. If this is typically done by cab riding with GWR then this won't have been possible due to social distancing and so even if they had available units there may be no drivers in a position to work the service.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

For the likes of Paignton and Newquay one also has to question how XC crew maintain route knowledge. If this is typically done by cab riding with GWR then this won't have been possible due to social distancing and so even if they had available units there may be no drivers in a position to work the service.

XC has two daily services to Paignton throughout the COVID reduced timetable. Newquay is obviously more of a problem.

 

[Martin_1981]

XC has two daily services to Paignton throughout the COVID reduced timetable. Newquay is obviously a problem

The holiday trains to Newquay in the last few years seem less busy to me than they did some years ago. I caught the Manchester to Newquay service from Exeter to Plymouth a few years ago in July, it was a single 5 car Voyager and whilst it was fairly well filled, there were quite a number of empty seats. Makes you wonder if these trains will ever return going forward.

 

[Snow1964]

I don't think they have the rolling stock or staffing resources to run the summer services. Voyagers are running as double sets on many trains to help with social distancing and the days of being able to hire in HSTs from the midland mainline and east coast franchises are long gone. That said, I don't see why they can't divert the 2 Plymouth HST'S to Paignton as that wouldn't require additional resources.

Perhaps they should rename themselves from cross country, to cross middle of country

More seriously when was it decided that cross country should abandon chunks of the country and be allowed to base its rolling stock provision and staffing levels on what is convenient or cheap, rather than providing the service to customers that used to be expected.

Seems they are no longer fit for purpose. Can’t even book tickets for the services they operate for school summer holidays, so seem to be in a fantasy world, not a customer focused world. I know it isn’t the early 1980s but when you compare a summer weekend timetable 51 with all its squiggly lines (operates for part of timetable only) and dozens of additional trains (all of which would be 9-12 coaches long) to Dorset, Devon and Cornwall with this years pathetic offering, you wonder what happened.

 

[Ianno87]

Seems they are no longer fit for purpose. Can’t even book tickets for the services they operate for school summer holidays, so seem to be in a fantasy world, not a customer focused world. I know it isn’t the early 1980s but when you compare a summer weekend timetable 51 with all its squiggly lines (operates for part of timetable only) and dozens of additional trains (all of which would be 9-12 coaches long) to Dorset, Devon and Cornwall with this years pathetic offering, you wonder what happened.

What happened was that XC realised that its core market (and where the most demand is) is frequent interval trains between major cities on short to medium distance journeys, operating and satisfying demand all year round.

 

[Mainliner]

Me and my family and/or mates never take the train. It’s just too expensive.

This isn’t my experience at all, as a (pre-Covid) regular long-distance rail traveller.

Of course, you need to book ahead and carefully select times for the best prices.

As it happens, I’m travelling from Morpeth-London today, booked some time ago, just after the post-lockdown roadmap was announced, and it was so inexpensive that we’re going first class, for £38 each (with railcard).

Most of the services are now sold out, of course, and the cheapest available fare is now much higher, with the most expensive several times that amount, which obviously IS expensive, and perhaps some people who never travel by train don’t look into how inexpensive it CAN be, with a bit of planning.

It amuses me how surprised people are at how much they can save on their shopping bills on these programmes where Greg Wallace and others show that instead of throwing all the most expensive branded goods into their supermarket trolley, they could look for alternatives which are as good or better, at a fraction of the price.

Again, just a bit of thought/planning, and they save literally thousands a year, which I have done every year for the past 15 years, in respect of weekly rail travel.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It’s quite clear that XC has agreed with DfT that the ongoing priority this summer is to ensure sufficient capacity on its core routes such as Sheffield-Birmingham rather than service some of the extremities. Passengers are still capable of changing trains - provided one can reach Exeter or Newton Abbot there are 2-3tph provided by GWR to Dawlish, Torquay and Paignton. There are also 2tph Plymouth to Penzance all day, with good connections to the branches, with double 150 sets serving Newquay.

Much of the need for direct XC services in the past was due to the generally poor underlying GWR offering pre-Dec 19; remember Plymouth-Penzance wasn’t even hourly! And Paignton was also only hourly. The XC timetable was a useful enhancement to local service as much as anything else.

 

[irish_rail]

What happened was that XC realised that its core market (and where the most demand is) is frequent interval trains between major cities on short to medium distance journeys, operating and satisfying demand all year round.

Well Plymouth to Bristol or Birmingham is hardly short to middle distance, especially Birmingham. People in the south west don't have an alternative, therefore XC need to step up to the mark and operate as an intercity TOC on certain routes. If they can't do it, maybe GWR can.

 

[berneyarms]

Well Plymouth to Bristol or Birmingham is hardly short to middle distance, especially Birmingham. People in the south west don't have an alternative, therefore XC need to step up to the mark and operate as an intercity TOC on certain routes. If they can't do it, maybe GWR can.

I know it involves a change, but you can still get from Plymouth to Taunton, and then another train to Bristol.

If they are redeploying the trains to double up other services to allow for social distancing, then it is going to mean other trains having to be cut somewhere.

 

[irish_rail]

I know it involves a change, but you can still get from Plymouth to Taunton, and then another train to Bristol.

If they are redeploying the trains to double up other services to allow for social distancing, then it is going to mean other trains having to be cut somewhere.

Trouble is lately there seem to be more single voyagers coming down this way. Plymouth to the North is basically XC or nothing so a proper intercity service at least as far as Birmingham is essential.

 

[43055]

Trouble is lately there seem to be more single voyagers coming down this way. Plymouth to the North is basically XC or nothing so a proper intercity service at least as far as Birmingham is essential.

Looking at RTT the only regular weekday single set diagrams off Plymouth seem to be the 0627, 0927, 1153 and 1827 which is 4 of 11 departures. The 1827 also has an attachment at Bristol while the others work through as a single set. You could be seeing more single sets as there is now a voyager diagram on the Nottingham - Cardiff route. Not sure if it's permanent or temporary but there are a few cancelations on the route today due to unit availability.

 

[irish_rail]

Looking at RTT the only regular weekday single set diagrams off Plymouth seem to be the 0627, 0927, 1153 and 1827 which is 4 of 11 departures. The 1827 also has an attachment at Bristol while the others work through as a single set. You could be seeing more single sets as there is now a voyager diagram on the Nottingham - Cardiff route. Not sure if it's permanent or temporary but there are a few cancelations on the route today due to unit availability.

4 out of 11 is still quite a few, but there are also short forms, several this week. And yet all I ever see at Reading on the Bomo to Manchester circuit is 8s and 9s. Can't help but feel if there is a shortfall, this time of year the Plymouth route should take priority. Indeed I overtook a 9 car on the Bomo to Manchester circuit near Goring the other day and it was nearly empty, whilst later the 4 car voyager I travelled from Bristol to Plymouth on was cosy to put it politely.

 

[185143]

The holiday trains to Newquay in the last few years seem less busy to me than they did some years ago. I caught the Manchester to Newquay service from Exeter to Plymouth a few years ago in July, it was a single 5 car Voyager and whilst it was fairly well filled, there were quite a number of empty seats. Makes you wonder if these trains will ever return going forward.

The Newquay's ran last summer!

However this picture is of the rear coach of the mid afternoon departure one Saturday in late August last year, taken around 3 minutes before departure. There were also "no reservations available". Although, to quote the ticket office we spoke to-a GWR one I won't name, but it wasn't anywhere between Plymouth and Newquay, told us to get on anyway as it'll be empty. They weren't joking. It was an absolutely glorious day, so if it was so empty then it has no chance. The pair of 150s we passed midway up the branch looked busy for 2m social distancing, but plenty of space.

 

[irish_rail]

The Newquay's ran last summer!

However this picture is of the rear coach of the mid afternoon departure one Saturday in late August last year, taken around 3 minutes before departure. There were also "no reservations available". Although, to quote the ticket office we spoke to-a GWR one I won't name, but it wasn't anywhere between Plymouth and Newquay, told us to get on anyway as it'll be empty. They weren't joking. It was an absolutely glorious day, so if it was so empty then it has no chance. The pair of 150s we passed midway up the branch looked busy for 2m social distancing, but plenty of space.

Last summer was certainly unique, a few very busy days but overall quiet, due to covid and no vaccines.
This year is already proving to be quite different, and far busier and its only mid June.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

4 out of 11 is still quite a few, but there are also short forms, several this week. And yet all I ever see at Reading on the Bomo to Manchester circuit is 8s and 9s. Can't help but feel if there is a shortfall, this time of year the Plymouth route should take priority. Indeed I overtook a 9 car on the Bomo to Manchester circuit near Goring the other day and it was nearly empty, whilst later the 4 car voyager I travelled from Bristol to Plymouth on was cosy to put it politely.

With respect you need to compare between Bristol to Plymouth with Reading to Bournemouth not north of Reading as you have done by your observation at Goring. The XC services between Reading and the seaside are loading incredibly heavily as they are only every 2 hours. North of Reading with an hourly service there is more capacity.

Bournemouth along with Brighton is one of the most popular seaside destinations and especially so from the Reading area.

 

[Alex27]

With respect you need to compare between Bristol to Plymouth with Reading to Bournemouth not north of Reading as you have done by your observation at Goring. The XC services between Reading and the seaside are loading incredibly heavily as they are only every 2 hours. North of Reading with an hourly service there is more capacity.

Bournemouth along with Brighton is one of the most popular seaside destinations and especially so from the Reading area.

It can certainly be very busy, I can't speak for Plymouth towards Birmingham, but Manchester to the south coast could probably do with double voyagers all the time (however that would be less of an issue if the Newcastles were reintroduced)

 

[43055]

It can certainly be very busy, I can't speak for Plymouth towards Birmingham, but Manchester to the south coast could probably do with double voyagers all the time (however that would be less of an issue if the Newcastles were reintroduced)

Certainly between Bristol and Birmingham it can get very busy even on the Bristol starters. Can't say anything about south of Bristol.