CrossCountry Voyager Shops (or lack of)

[bengolding]

I travelled on a CrossCountry Voyager earlier today and the First Class host told me that Bombardier say that only 3 trains are left with a Shop on board. The rest have been reconfigured with an on-board trolley service providing catering.

What are people's expereicnes of the new on board torlley service on the CrossCountry Voyagers? Previously, if anybody wanted food or drink, they knew where the Shop was. Now, they have to wait for the trolley to come through (if it is able to, unlikely on busy sections).

 

[Mojo]

What are people's expereicnes of the new on board torlley service on the CrossCountry Voyagers? Previously, if anybody wanted food or drink, they knew where the Shop was. Now, they have to wait for the trolley to come through (if it is able to, unlikely on busy sections).

Aside from the fact that I can't get hot food (although some ambient "Delice de France" snacks were being trialled), it's much better as I don't have to risk leaving my seat and having my stuff stolen, and there is service at seat for First class customers. I find coffee repulsive and I understand that Instant coffee doesn't taste as good so I suppose that is a downer.

In addition there is a base for the trolley in the Quiet zone (coach 'F' on single units) so it should be available there, although I've never seen the trolley not be able to get through.

 

[221_108]

Personally I hate the trolley, I like to get up and move around the train, without the shop I've no excuse to get up and move around only to use the loo.

IMO the trolley passes through quite quickly which suggests to me that not many more are using it than the shop. I've seen it get caught on peak services with staff having to move alot of luggage round to get it the trolley back the way it came.

Everytime I've bought a hot drink it has been luke warm at best, at least with the shop you could gaurentee that a hot drink would be hot. Plus the amount you get has decreased by 28% with no fall in price,but at the moment I expect it is the least of their worries!

I don't believe it was the right thing to do but it seems the Shop was doomed regardless of who took the franchise.

 

[jamesontheroad]

It's a real dividing argument. One the one hand, the Voyagers desperately needed more space for seats and luggage, although having seen one unit without the shop, I'd question whether it was wise to replace it with so much luggage space in just one place... it's not likely to be much benefit to the punter who boards with a suitcase two carriages away. I'm surprised they haven't put more thought into signage on the outside of the trains to better identify not just cycle space but also the car with extra luggage space.

As Mojo says, passengers travelling alone might be reluctant to leave their possessions to go to the shop, but then on the other hand it is an amenity and 'destination' that makes a long journey more interesting and enjoyable for passengers. The novelty of walking to a modern looking 'shop' means you get to stretch your legs, move about the train etc. With a trolley you might feel less likely to move around etc, and therefore get bored etc (note: entirely unscientific psychological analysis at work here )

The coffee issue is a big one. I really liked the Fairtrade coffee on offer before, especially as the technological advances in compact bean-to-cup coffee machines (i.e. those that grind beans as they need them) produced hot, fresh and tasty coffee. There is no way that freeze dried instant coffee made with hot water that could have been in an insulated flask for five or six hours will be as warm or as good. This is a shame, and I suspect short sighted of XC, because coffee drinkers like me are basically addicts, and we'll pay over the odds for what we perceive to be good coffee

 

[Bayum]

That was something I raised with crosscountry a while back actually...

Well, I emailed them anyways.... Saying, most people wont know you've got rid of the shop, let alone got more luggage space... So, possibly some sort of sign on the outside of the train would be ideal, telling people they have lots of space to put luggage??

 

[Greenback]

I liked the shop, and the trolley is not an acceptable alternative as far as I personally am concerned. The Voyager traisnw ere an appalling design in the first place as far as luggage capacity was concerned, although they do look smart!

 

[First ScotRail]

The Delice de france products are now being rolled out across the whole network, the trial was a success according to Rail Gourmets little First Class magazine.

 

[Bayum]

The Delice de france products are now being rolled out across the whole network, the trial was a success according to Rail Gourmets little First Class magazine.

Every trial is a "success" probably...

 

[jamesontheroad]

Every trial is a "success" probably...

And every public consultation supports what the consulting body is after. Like NXEC consulting passengers (no-one seems to remember being consulted on this subject) and deciding to pull most resto services... :roll:

 

[caughtonatrain]

For my two pen'orth, the trolleys have brought about little advantage, and brought about several disadvantages:

1. Passengers wanting hot food must (and are often invited to) visit the catering area at the end of the Quiet Coach - causing noise and disturbance there.
2. As jamesontheroad says, coffee isn't as good as it used to be
3. Services often only have 15-20 minutes between stops (esp. between Leeds and Birmingham) and I have seen the trolleys massively conflict with people trying to get on/off the train. People trapped at one end of the carriage while their luggage is at the other find themselved having to wait for someone to get their coffee and flapjack, change and a receipt (etc etc) ... I'm sure people must have missed their stop in this way.
4. We all know how busy these blasted Voyagers can be, which means often the trolley doesn't even bother to make an attempt.
5. No 'destination' for those that like to get up and move around (again as Jamesontheroad says).

As for the security of leaving things alone while visiting the shop (e.g. Mojo's concerns), has anybody ever actually suffered any problems with this? I think trains are pretty secure places (little chance of escaping before the crime has been discovered and the train crew alerted + cctv + a dedicated police force!) .. surely the biggest risk is unmonitored luggage going walkabout at a station stop. Topic for new thread, or has it already been covered?

cheers

 

[Mojo]

Saying what I said earlier, not wanting to leave my things unattended, I could probably say the same about not wanting to leave them unattended in the large luggage area in coach 'D' unless I could see it through the window! One thing I would have possibly done is moved the sliding door to just behind the bike area to allow better visibility. I have to say though that these racks have proved very useful on the busier trains, especially for people with prams or larger/multiple items.

I have to ask though, are the overhead luggage racks essential in some way, why do they continue over the racks at the carriage ends? You could fit much more luggage in if they had two shelves like on HSTs.

 

[thefab444]

The new luggage storage area replacing the shop is a bit of a farce - not only because of the trolley but anyone could just wait for the train to stop (standing in the vestibules is hardly suspicious on a Voyager) and walk off with somebody else's case - visibility from the passenger saloon is poor.

 

[AlexS]

Trolleys crap. Food is now always warm - a sweaty sandwich is not pleasant. Coffees awful, and the lack of hot food is also irritating.

 

[37401]

I saw a poster today and it suddenly made sence to me the poster read "and we`ll bring it to your seat" so basicly having the trolley is saying "we come to you" but the shop means "get up and do it yourself", It creates a much more "coustomer friendly" service. well thats what I think anyways

I beleve the shop is better as you dont have to wait for it and there was more choice/supply and it was better for the staff i would imagine as they diddnt have to climb over peoples feet,bags ect.

 

[thefab444]

If you've only just realised that, then you're a bit slow on the uptake.

Anyway, it's a good idea in principle, but not if the train is remotely busy, which is most XC services.

 

[Skarpur]

Done Exeter to Sheffield today, the trolley never left the Quiet Coach where I was sat, meaning a constant flow of people through the carriage to get to it. It probably could have made it through until Birmingham, but there was no chance afterwards as luggage was everywhere and the vestibules crowded. The train manager even mentioned that the trolley should be making its way through the train after departure from Bristol Temple Meads. It seems a complete farce to be honest, at least the shop was located towards the centre of the train, not at the far end.

 

[devon_metro]

One wonders how to collect complimentary items south of Bristol if the trolley is not able to reach coach A.

I got RTVs last time the XC catering wasn't up to scratch!

 

[mathmo]

If the trolley doesn't try to move through the train - as described above - is that simply the fault of the member of staff being lazy? Can any of the catering workers on here explain? That's what I always put it down to - same as conductors not checking tickets - so if I'm wrong I'd like to know!

 

[MCR247]

If the trolley doesn't try to move through the train - as described above - is that simply the fault of the member of staff being lazy? Can any of the catering workers on here explain? That's what I always put it down to - same as conductors not checking tickets - so if I'm wrong I'd like to know!

Well with some, it might be a case of not being able to get through as its to busy, or it being a stopping-agian-before-weve-got-to-10mph trains, where you have to go to the rear doors(?) to open the doors, but now modern trains have local door controls

 

[fireincairo]

Unfortunately I doubt the trolley has a built-in Microwave. However this may be a good thing depending on your take on the "bacon sandwichs" they used to serve under Virgin.

 

[Mojo]

Just read that 221138, the final unit with a shop, entered Bombardier at Derby this morning!

 

[yorksrob]

Prefer a good buffet car myself selling hot and cold snacks. I suppose the problem with having short units on long distance trains (with no through connection) is that the space for two buffets/shops on one average length train can't be justified.

 

[Bayum]

I bet XC regret saying that they were going to get rid of the shops now... =/

 

[MCR247]

Probably not

 

[350401]

With AXC and the shops its an issue of capacity v comfort. Taking out the shops has enabled an extra 18 to 22 seats per unit to be fitted in, thus cutting down people standing. That comes at the price of poorer catering. TBH, on what is on average a 2 to 3 hour train journey, only having a choice of sandwiches/nibbles and hot/cold drinks is just about okay. The problems arise when a) its a 4 hour+ journey, as can happen on the XC network or b) the trolley dolley fails to turn up and thus there is no catering.

In my experience, when there is a shop, it tends to open. However, when its a trolley, its hit and miss whether it turns up. The problem with AXC is that 2 hours on a train with no drinks is dam lousy, and quite frequently, like with Transpennine Express, the trolley never turns up. Thus I've now taken to always buying drinks pre-journey, rather than relying on getting a coffee onboard, like I used to do. Of course, the more this happens, the less viable catering becomes. Its a vicious, self inflicted circle.

 

[jamesontheroad]

With AXC and the shops its an issue of capacity v comfort. Taking out the shops has enabled an extra 18 to 22 seats per unit to be fitted in, thus cutting down people standing. That comes at the price of poorer catering. TBH, on what is on average a 2 to 3 hour train journey, only having a choice of sandwiches/nibbles and hot/cold drinks is just about okay. The problems arise when a) its a 4 hour+ journey, as can happen on the XC network or b) the trolley dolley fails to turn up and thus there is no catering.

Additionally, while I appreciate it was a complex job, the end result looks a mess. We have some more seats, but also an excess of luggage space in one carriage, which isn't visible from the passenger saloon (which does not encourage people to use it). The Voyagers were not only badly designed in the first place, they were designed without consideration for subsequent alterations such as this...

 

[mumrar]

Where did this paranoia of not being able to sit over 4 inches away from your luggage come from. We may bang on about the good old days here, how well could you see the as built luggage racks on coaching stock? It would help if people didn't travel with suitcases that they could stow away inside of! And females, I'm afraid I'm looking at you mostly for this. It's no wonder the overhead storage is useless to these passengers. It's all very well bemoaning the design flaws of the Voyager, but you can't say mk2s and 3s were perfect. The armrests between seats were permanent, I'm sure we can all remember the limbo over them required to get a window seat at a table. And passenger capacity is still being improved in these vehicles 30 years later, and I don't think comfort in the XC HSTs suffer as a result. Fact is, as is always, the British love a good moan, and train travel is no exception. I do see the irony in that last statement and the tone of my post by the way. Why do you think us Brits love the internet forums so much? Freedom of expression (via moaning )

 

[Stacey]

If the trolley doesn't try to move through the train - as described above - is that simply the fault of the member of staff being lazy? Can any of the catering workers on here explain? That's what I always put it down to - same as conductors not checking tickets - so if I'm wrong I'd like to know!

Some staff are lazy however, I personally take a bit of umbridge over that because there are times when you simply cannot make it through the train and I am constantly irritated by snyde comments coming from passengers 'finally' or 'I wondered where you'd got to' etc etc when the train is busy I'm pulling a trolley and they have legs.
As far as I'm concerned if it's busy but just enough room to get through then I will. I don't know if XC have a target system but SWT do so its my job to get through. Basically, if pax don't see a trolley then the TM hears about it and if the pax don't see a TM I usually hear about it.
Trains change daily and so do the circumstances, it is a common idea that we're lazy if we can't get through, personally I'm trying to do my job with pax who don't want to lose 'their spot' and if the pax want food etc enough then they will make the effort to find you..

 

[route:oxford]

Where did this paranoia of not being able to sit over 4 inches away from your luggage come from.

Since we were told to keep our luggage with us at all times or it may be removed and destroyed...

We may bang on about the good old days here, how well could you see the as built luggage racks on coaching stock?

Really easily, there was usually space for a suitcase or two inbetween each set of 4+table. On the 158 I was on last night from Edinburgh to Stirling there was a luggage rack that took up the space of 4 seats+table.

Would help if people didn't travel with suitcases that they could stow away inside of!

I'm not sure that they can under the rules of carriage.

And females, I'm afraid I'm looking at you mostly for this. It's no wonder the overhead storage is useless to these passengers.

Because they tend to be shorter than men and can't reach? Or because they carry more luggage? I'm not sure either is true. My luggage for a week in Scotland comprised of a slim 35 litre rucsac - it fitted easily with a bit of force into overhead storage. If I wasn't staying with family and can leave spare underwear, socks, shoes, trainers, boots, jeans, jumpers, waterproofs and chargers in Scotland, I would need to carry a suitcase and fly up BA or BMI from Heathrow

 

[Fincra5]

There is a lack of choice but also on busy trains like the one i got from bristol to exeter the trolley couldnt get down the train because of people and baggage. So i had to walk right to the other end of the train. I know i'm lazy sometimes and they are only 4-5cars.