CrossCountry voyagers due for a referb?

[Dan15812]

I really do think it's time for these units to be overhauled! I was on a 220 the other day and it was incredibly battered, full of stains and the vestibules stink of toilet.

 

[supervc-10]

While I totally agree, I don't think I've ever been on a Voyager which didn't stink of toilets in the vestibules.

 

[Bletchleyite]

XC just don't look after them. The condition of VTWC's sets is markedly superior.

 

[Brissle Girl]

After 17 years in service I would expect front line stock on a long distance franchise to be overdue a comprehensive internal refurbishment. However the cancellation of the franchise process and delay in any alternative arrangements is probably delaying this. Another example where the breakdown in the franchising process is not putting passengers first.

 

[JonathanH]

XC just don't look after them. The condition of VTWC's sets is markedly superior.

They are all maintained at the same place. Are you suggesting that Central Rivers treat the two fleets differently?

After 17 years in service I would expect front line stock on a long distance franchise to be overdue a comprehensive internal refurbishment. However the cancellation of the franchise process and delay in any alternative arrangements is probably delaying this. Another example where the breakdown in the franchising process is not putting passengers first.

The XC Voyagers have had one refit when the shop was taken out - it is just that they retained the same moquette on the seats.

I'm not sure what you would do in a 'comprehensive internal refurbishment'. You can't really reconfigure the interior and although they have been in service for 17 years the interior, whilst very familiar, isn't particularly dated.

 

[supervc-10]

I dunno, the interior colour scheme is pretty dated. Particularly the panelling in that weird off-white/yellow colour, and the silver panelling in the vestibules that makes me think of a 20-year-old sci-fi set!

 

[CM]

Scrapping would be a better alternative, Voyagers are quite simply, horrid.

 

[Brissle Girl]

They are all maintained at the same place. Are you suggesting that Central Rivers treat the two fleets differently?



The XC Voyagers have had one refit when the shop was taken out - it is just that they retained the same moquette on the seats.

I'm not sure what you would do in a 'comprehensive internal refurbishment'. You can't really reconfigure the interior and although they have been in service for 17 years the interior, whilst very familiar, isn't particularly dated.

Strip the interior to a bare shell and start again from scratch. Not unreasonable for a mid life refurb.

 

[Parallel]

They probably do need a refurbishment, everything is battered and some carpets are quite threadbare. Also, when I have travelled recently, several light tubes/spot lights haven’t been working - it all just looks rather tired.

On a side note, do the Voyagers need any PRM work? They don’t have automated announcements do they? Anything else they need and don’t already have for 2020?

 

[oliverpckehoe]

I dunno, the interior colour scheme is pretty dated. Particularly the panelling in that weird off-white/yellow colour, and the silver panelling in the vestibules that makes me think of a 20-year-old sci-fi set!

I feel like the colour scheme used on XC's HSTs would brighten up the interior. Even if it isn't dated, it isn't exactly very pleasant and some units look very scruffy from both vandalism and normal use.

Scrapping would be a better alternative, Voyagers are quite simply, horrid.

Might I suggest a midlife refurb and extension to 6 carriages. That would sort overcrowding on the busiest services, whilst making them more pleasant. In hindsight, all of my negative experiences on a 22x were when they were jam packed.

 

[rebmcr]

They are all maintained at the same place. Are you suggesting that Central Rivers treat the two fleets differently?

Certainly, if one operator pays for the extra maintenance time and the other cheaps out.

Might I suggest a midlife refurb and extension to 6 carriages.

The model is no longer manufactured, so additional carriages would carry the great expense of reproducing the old production lines.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

The model is no longer manufactured, so additional carriages would carry the great expense of reproducing the old production lines.

Then might I suggest new units able to work in multiple with 22x units, possibly to extend all trains to 8/9/10 cars during peak hours

 

[Doomotron]

Then might I suggest new units able to work in multiple with 22x units, possibly to extend all trains to 8/9/10 cars during peak hours

Or just get new trains to replace the HSTs and some Voyagers so the Voyagers can run in multiple.

 

[hexagon789]

Scrapping would be a better alternative, Voyagers are quite simply, horrid.

The base design is fine, it's the interior that primarily let's them down. As said by others, Virgin's are far nicer and better maintained, a thorough refurbishment could vastly improve them.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

Or just get new trains to replace the HSTs and some Voyagers so the Voyagers can run in multiple.

Units compatible with Voyagers will add flexibility, which helps if your fleet is spread out between Penzance and Aberdeen at any one moment. In addition, the HSTs are in no need of replacement. Their clean interior and ongoing power door project means XC don't want to get rid of them.

 

[507 001]

They are all maintained at the same place. Are you suggesting that Central Rivers treat the two fleets differently?

I’d say that’s pretty obvious, and it’s far from being a new thing. Within a year of the franchise starting there was a noticeable difference in cleanliness, and as far back as 2013 there were some noticeable problems with the interiors. I did a trip from Devon to Manchester on one in August 2013 on a pretty warm day. The air con was broken in half of each carriage and the toilets were all knackered. In contrast with the VTWC sets that I was travelling on semi frequently at the time it was dire.

Fast forward to today, and you have the WC sets being fitted with new external PIDs on the doors, and the XC sets running round with the mostly broken originals.

I’ve always put it down to either Arriva being tight, or the WC sets getting back to Central Rivers more frequently. Sadly I think it’s probably the former.

I doubt they’ll get a refurb either, I suspect that the new XC franchise will come with a new fleet of Bi-Mode IEPs. I can’t think of anywhere they could be moved on to (other than WC, which might also have other plans), so they may not be long for this world!

 

[Andyh82]

Once you get past that it’s a multiple unit not a HST or coaches hauled by a class 47, and excluding the fact that they are often over crowded, what exactly are wrong with Voyagers?

They seem to generate extreme hate and I’m sure half the reasons are due to the above. Would a 8 car class 8xx be better than 2x220?

 

[oliverpckehoe]

Once you get past that it’s a multiple unit not a HST or coaches hauled by a class 47, and excluding the fact that they are often over crowded, what exactly are wrong with Voyagers?

They seem to generate extreme hate and I’m sure half the reasons are due to the above. Would a 8 car class 8xx be better than 2x220?

An 8 car IEP would be an improvement, although I doubt a permanent 8-coach train is viable or sensible as a 4-carriage 220 is already more than enough for extremities like Aberdeen or Penzance/Newquay.

 

[CM]

Once you get past that it’s a multiple unit not a HST or coaches hauled by a class 47, and excluding the fact that they are often over crowded, what exactly are wrong with Voyagers?

They seem to generate extreme hate and I’m sure half the reasons are due to the above. Would a 8 car class 8xx be better than 2x220?

Cramped, uncomfortable, the toilets reek and they are generally just diabolical. I put Voyagers on my list of disliked rolling stock right up next to the Class 158. Pendolinos are only a slight improvment on Voyagers. IMHO they should really just design and build a modern day equivalent of the HST with a loco at each end and some DECENT coaches in between, how hard can it actually be?

 

[Geoff DC]

I never thought it possible as a Far wesr GWR traveller, but the voyagers are far far better than the IETs, at least in 1st
1st in an IET is way below a Voyager, and evn XC coffee is better than GWR

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I was followed onto a XC HST at New Street one night by a family group, and one of them opined "thank goodness - a proper train!"

Obviously, he also wasn't a 'Voyager' lover!

 

[GrimShady]

Cramped, uncomfortable, the toilets reek and they are generally just diabolical. I put Voyagers on my list of disliked rolling stock right up next to the Class 158. Pendolinos are only a slight improvment on Voyagers. IMHO they should really just design and build a modern day equivalent of the HST with a loco at each end and some DECENT coaches in between, how hard can it actually be?

Agreed.

 

[507 001]

Once you get past that it’s a multiple unit not a HST or coaches hauled by a class 47, and excluding the fact that they are often over crowded, what exactly are wrong with Voyagers?

They seem to generate extreme hate and I’m sure half the reasons are due to the above. Would a 8 car class 8xx be better than 2x220?

They’re less refined than a 158. Says a lot really.

The worst things to be inflicted on the long distance passenger since 150/2s on Trans Pennine Holyhead-Scarborough trains in the 80s.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Cramped, uncomfortable, the toilets reek and they are generally just diabolical. I put Voyagers on my list of disliked rolling stock right up next to the Class 158. Pendolinos are only a slight improvment on Voyagers. IMHO they should really just design and build a modern day equivalent of the HST with a loco at each end and some DECENT coaches in between, how hard can it actually be?

Transpennine have, brand new Mark 5a coaches with a driving car and a class 68 on the front pushing and pulling, the class 68 could also be changed to a class 88 dual mode OHLE/Diesel loco for CrossCountry services

 

[Jozhua]

Yeah Voyagers definitely need a refurb.

Lots of seats that don't line up with windows, the seats take up a lot of space and don't really offer that much in regards to comfort. Generally just look kinda gross inside, like they've been overcrowded all day, everyday for almost two decades.

 

[Dave91131]

Strip the interior to a bare shell and start again from scratch. Not unreasonable for a mid life refurb.

Agreed.

Strip out, fit new interior including seats better aligned to windows and with more tables, sort out loo stench, and reduce amount of wasted space near carriage ends by cutting number of bike racks and out of use cubby holes (or shops) as well as losing.

Send to Scotland following refurbishment for duties now being covered by HST's.

Something '802-ish' of appropriate length could and should have been / still be procured to operate long distance XC services.

But, with the way this country's railways are run, no.

 

[GrimShady]

Agreed.

Strip out, fit new interior including seats better aligned to windows and with more tables, sort out loo stench, and reduce amount of wasted space near carriage ends by cutting number of bike racks and out of use cubby holes (or shops) as well as losing.

Send to Scotland following refurbishment for duties now being covered by HST's.

Something '802-ish' of appropriate length could and should have been / still be procured to operate long distance XC services.

But, with the way this country's railways are run, no.

No you can keep them thanks. We have no wish to see them moved north.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

In my opinion, XC Voyagers seat covers are not very worn, but I feel like the lighting is a bit dim compared to Desiros

 

[supervc-10]

Apart from the stench, I don't have a problem with the basic passenger experience of them. They seem to ride ok, yes they're noisier than loco hauled stock or EMUs but they're not too bad. I've not been on a Meridian, but it does seem that those very similar trains get a lot less hate!

The big problem I've had on Voyagers has normally been no fault of the train itself- overcrowding and the tatty interiors. Having said that, poor space efficiency inside is a big downside to them.

 

[fgwrich]

As my commute home is usually shared between a combination of a GW Turbo + SWR Desiros, or XC Voyagers, I too started to think about the condition of these units the other day. I completely agree with what has been said about the condition and state of these units so far, After 17 years of hard use, the Voyagers are in dire need of a full scale refurbishment. I would strip them back to their bare shell and start again from there - technology has moved on since then, allowing for better soundproofing and insulation. I would also change the entire roof layout and overhead luggage racks, removing the completely and unnecessarily curved roof and overhead racks designed for nothing more than a newspaper. I would probably lose the uncomfortable glutinous Maximus numbing seats in favour of something more space saving. I would possibly even considering losing at least 1 of the toilets per 4 car & 5 car in favour of increased luggage space and a smaller toilet. CCTV and a new PA system are a must after all these years!

Strip the interior to a bare shell and start again from scratch. Not unreasonable for a mid life refurb.

They are all maintained at the same place. Are you suggesting that Central Rivers treat the two fleets differently?

Yes. Not only for the differences mentioned above, but I believe Virgin has managed to take steps on their units to reduce or remove the toilet smell caused by the poor design of these units. XC has not.

Also, bare in mine the exterior livery on these units is exactly as delivered - just the small >><< and VT branding has been removed, the rest is simply vinyled over, while the roof is just permanently left dirty.

I never thought it possible as a Far wesr GWR traveller, but the voyagers are far far better than the IETs, at least in 1st
1st in an IET is way below a Voyager, and evn XC coffee is better than GWR

The funny thing is that the game design company and team where involved in the Voyager and IEP design. However, to prove that the customer isn't always right, they also did the Irish Rail 22000 Class. A design where Dick Fearn wanted the equivalent of a Mk3, and that's exactly what he got in DMU form.