Crossrail bits and bobs

[Wolfie]

I'm pretty sure he's just saying this either because he's grossly uninformed about the impacts of terminating at OOC, or just saying it as a sop to the electorate, much like his opposition to the 3rd runway at Heathrow.

With HS2, as with Heathrow, he is luckily in no position to stop either, which is great as it means vital infrastructure is not held back by pandering to voters.

Speaking personally I think the Old Oak terminus option is barking but, living in Islington, I also know what a shambles Euston will be for years and the impact on the surrounding area and the access route through Camden. Hence asking for a reconsideration and/or more mitigation measures (strange how so much has been proposed for the [Tory voting] Chilterns and how little in London) isn't at all unreasonable.

More generally, democracy... it's a bugger when the people get a say isn't it!

Of course Mussolini that well known democrat was famous for making the trains run on time.....

As for Sadiq methinks that the elected official with the biggest personal mandate of any politician in UK will have leverage, particularly if he uses the not inconsiderable resources of the GLA to litigate against any proposals he doesn't like...

There is not a hope of a 3rd runway at Heathrow for a start!

 

[phoenixcronin]

There is not a hope of a 3rd runway at Heathrow for a start!

Without wanting to take this thread too far off topic, I can guarantee you that a 3rd runway will be built at Heathrow . If not feel free to return to this post and humiliate me.

Anyway, does anyone know if the 66 Class 345 units are enough to cover potential service increases, such as allowing some of the 14tph which currently terminate at Paddington from the east to carry on westbound? Or will more units have to be ordered at a later date?

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyway, does anyone know if the 66 Class 345 units are enough to cover potential service increases, such as allowing some of the 14tph which currently terminate at Paddington from the east to carry on westbound? Or will more units have to be ordered at a later date?

66 units (which I believe includes 1 extra for Reading) is for the planned service we are familiar with, i.e. with the 14 tph short workings as far as Westbourne Park. According to TfL's announcement (originally for 65 units) there were contract options for more 18 additional trains, presumably for the purposes you mention.

Bombardier will supply 65 trains for Crossrail services. Each Crossrail train will be around 200 metres long, made up of nine carriages. The contract includes options for 18 additional trains.

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...nd-depot-contract-to-be-awarded-to-bombardier

 

[Taunton]

It's actually very difficult in modern times to justify financially additional units, because once you start the service and it's overcrowded, the ADDITIONAL revenue that may be generated by introduction of additional units is commonly not enough to cover the cost of buying them. Yes, you may be overcrowded, passengers may be unable to board at certain points/times, but the extra cost is just not covered by any additional revenue. Bear in mind that those squashed in beyond Pixc limits, or standing on the platform unable to get in, have already paid their money. You won't get any more money in if you make conditions easier for them.

 

[JamesRowden]

It's actually very difficult in modern times to justify financially additional units, because once you start the service and it's overcrowded, the ADDITIONAL revenue that may be generated by introduction of additional units is commonly not enough to cover the cost of buying them. Yes, you may be overcrowded, passengers may be unable to board at certain points/times, but the extra cost is just not covered by any additional revenue. Bear in mind that those squashed in beyond Pixc limits, or standing on the platform unable to get in, have already paid their money. You won't get any more money in if you make conditions easier for them.

The minimum post-Crossrail service level along the relief lines between Airport Junction and Central London is already at 12tph (both peak and off-peak) formed of:

• 2tph GWR Semi-Fast
• 2tph Crossrail to Reading
• 2tph Crossrail to Maidenhead
• 4tph Crossrail to Heathrow
• 2tph Freight (Off-Peak) / 2tph Crossrail to West Drayton (Peak)

The Western Route Study suggests Crossrail taking over the semi-fast paths once there is enough demand. This would transfer some GWR revenue to Crossrail. I would guess that this would require 4 additional units. The other 14 possible additional units are probably intended for use on the proposed WCML Crossrail services which would transfer revenue from London Midland.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's actually very difficult in modern times to justify financially additional units, because once you start the service and it's overcrowded, the ADDITIONAL revenue that may be generated by introduction of additional units is commonly not enough to cover the cost of buying them. Yes, you may be overcrowded, passengers may be unable to board at certain points/times, but the extra cost is just not covered by any additional revenue. Bear in mind that those squashed in beyond Pixc limits, or standing on the platform unable to get in, have already paid their money. You won't get any more money in if you make conditions easier for them.

I believe in capitalism - but this can not just be about money surely? Service has to be part of the deal as does the environment and safety.

 

[hwl]

The minimum post-Crossrail service level along the relief lines between Airport Junction and Central London is already at 12tph (both peak and off-peak) formed of:

• 2tph GWR Semi-Fast
• 2tph Crossrail to Reading
• 2tph Crossrail to Maidenhead
• 4tph Crossrail to Heathrow
• 2tph Freight (Off-Peak) / 2tph Crossrail to West Drayton (Peak)

The Western Route Study suggests Crossrail taking over the semi-fast paths once there is enough demand. This would transfer some GWR revenue to Crossrail. I would guess that this would require 4 additional units. The other 14 possible additional units are probably intended for use on the proposed WCML Crossrail services which would transfer revenue from London Midland.

The 14tph terminating at OOC rahter than Paddington from 2026 when HS2 opens will use up a few units more as would taking over HEx.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe in capitalism - but this can not just be about money surely? Service has to be part of the deal as does the environment and safety.

I think TfL take the enlightened view that increasing capacity on the rail network is essential to keep London functioning and therefore brings huge economic benefits (or perhaps avoids huge economic disbenefits). Anyone unfortunate enough to invest in the ventures of Charles Tyson Yerkes in the Edwardian era soon found out that an underground railway isn't commercially viable.

 

[Busaholic]

Without wanting to take this thread too far off topic, I can guarantee you that a 3rd runway will be built at Heathrow . If not feel free to return to this post and humiliate me.

IMO the only way a 3rd runway could get a government go-ahead would be if the following two things happened:-
1) Call Me Dave won a resounding YES in the referendum (i.e. over 55%) and
2) Gideon replaced him as P.M.

Even then, the politics of it all could stymie it indefinitely.