Crossrail/OOC to Wembley Stadium

[dorsetmagpie]

Hello all,

Long time lurker here, who's often been amazed and fascinated by the amount of knowledge on here... and thought I would tap into it to see if I could find an answer to something that has been bugging me for a while.

As an avid football fan, albeit one who supports a non-league team and has fallen out of love with the upper echelons of the game. Nothing exemplifies this better for me than Wembley Stadium and its lack of transport connection for those outside of London. (The skeptic in me thinks was deliberate and in conjunction with National Express as part of their major sponsorship agreement, but I digress) Given that most games now take place in the evening/midweek (not to mention the number of concerts) and the lack of connectivity make it near on impossible for fans outside of London to attend without having to leave early/book hotels.

So I've found it a little bit strange that with the development of Crossrail and HS2 coming so close to Wembley at OOC, that nothing was built in to connect Wembley to OOC, not even a Crossrail spur for matchdays (would a 3km tunnel have been that expensive in the grand scheme of things?)

Even today with the plans for the Dudding Hill Line, I'm surprised that they haven't looked at utilising the spur on the existing track the peels off just before Neasden into the existing Wembley Stadium Station. Imagine how useful it would be on Matchday's to have a line from Wembley straight to OOC and onto HS2 back to the North, without having to get a slow tube line back into central London!!

I am far from an expert on these matters though, so I was hoping someone could explain to me why what appears at first glance to be something of a logical and someone inexpensive idea is actually far more complex and unfeasible once you look under the hood (so to speak)

Thank you

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Hello all,

Long time lurker here, who's often been amazed and fascinated by the amount of knowledge on here... and thought I would tap into it to see if I could find an answer to something that has been bugging me for a while.

As an avid football fan, albeit one who supports a non-league team and has fallen out of love with the upper echelons of the game. Nothing exemplifies this better for me than Wembley Stadium and its lack of transport connection for those outside of London. (The skeptic in me thinks was deliberate and in conjunction with National Express as part of their major sponsorship agreement, but I digress) Given that most games now take place in the evening/midweek (not to mention the number of concerts) and the lack of connectivity make it near on impossible for fans outside of London to attend without having to leave early/book hotels.

So I've found it a little bit strange that with the development of Crossrail and HS2 coming so close to Wembley at OOC, that nothing was built in to connect Wembley to OOC, not even a Crossrail spur for matchdays (would a 3km tunnel have been that expensive in the grand scheme of things?)

Even today with the plans for the Dudding Hill Line, I'm surprised that they haven't looked at utilising the spur on the existing track the peels off just before Neasden into the existing Wembley Stadium Station. Imagine how useful it would be on Matchday's to have a line from Wembley straight to OOC and onto HS2 back to the North, without having to get a slow tube line back into central London!!

I am far from an expert on these matters though, so I was hoping someone could explain to me why what appears at first glance to be something of a logical and someone inexpensive idea is actually far more complex and unfeasible once you look under the hood (so to speak)

Thank you

The link you refer to - Neasden Junction to Neasden South Junction - can be accessed only from the direction of Acton Wells Junction. This limits its use as a means to reach Wembley Stadium station by large numbers of people. As a new station on the North London Line linking to Old Oak Common is now mooted, decision makers may re-think whether it's feasible to provide a special service to Wembley on match days.

 

[stevieinselby]

So I've found it a little bit strange that with the development of Crossrail and HS2 coming so close to Wembley at OOC, that nothing was built in to connect Wembley to OOC, not even a Crossrail spur for matchdays (would a 3km tunnel have been that expensive in the grand scheme of things?)

Yes, it very much would!

I am far from an expert on these matters though, so I was hoping someone could explain to me why what appears at first glance to be something of a logical and someone inexpensive idea is actually far more complex and unfeasible once you look under the hood (so to speak)

Building any lines is expensive, and especially building a new tunnel in London.
As well as the cost of infrastructure, you've also got the cost of rolling stock to service the route, which is going to spend most of its time sitting idle and not earning revenue – or alternatively you're pinching it from other routes and leaving them short at times when you're running event services.
Wembley is already well served by existing transport – the Metropolitan, Jubilee, Bakerloo and Lioness lines all call within easy walking distance of the stadium, giving direct access to Paddington, Marylebone, Euston, Waterloo, London Bridge, Kings Cross/St Pancras and Liverpool Street, which means a single change and you can be on a regional or intercity train to pretty much anywhere in the south-east and any major town or city across the country.

Running dedicated event specials also has a knock-on effect on other services. Much of the network – especially around London – is running at or very close to maximum capacity even now. So putting on event specials would lead to disruption to regular services, which would be frustrating for regular passengers who expect their trains to be running to the normal timetable. That's why there are very few event specials running even where the infrastructure is in place – Glastonbury and the rugby at Cardiff are about the only two I can think of. Even Manchester United stopped running football specials a few years ago and they have their own railway station which shows the problems involved.

 

[SynthD]

The trains couldn’t shuttle, there isn’t spare capacity to turn around on the through platforms. The area around the station is built on, and I don’t see them building a bay several hundred metres to the east, nor taking over half of the depot.

Walking from the stadium to Neasden or Harlesden is doable, it sounds like many people already walk to a station not named Wembley. A dedicated bus would take 15 minutes to reach OOC now.

 

[stuu]

So I've found it a little bit strange that with the development of Crossrail and HS2 coming so close to Wembley at OOC, that nothing was built in to connect Wembley to OOC, not even a Crossrail spur for matchdays (would a 3km tunnel have been that expensive in the grand scheme of things?)

That would cost somewhere in the region of £750m at a minimum. For a stadium which is already served by 3 tube lines and 3 different NR services, which has events maybe 30 days per year or something. That's why it doesn't exist

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the OPs perception of the lack of connections to Wembley from outsode London a bit wide of the mark. There’s loads of good connections, as exemplified by the tens of thousands who attended the Carabao Cup final by train from Liverpool and Newcastle.

I think I’m correct in saying that a significant majority of all visitors attending Wembley Stadium for all events travel by train (including the underground). And, obviously, they are not all from London.

 

[brad465]

I think the OPs perception of the lack of connections to Wembley from outsode London a bit wide of the mark. There’s loads of good connections, as exemplified by the tens of thousands who attended the Carabao Cup final by train from Liverpool and Newcastle.

I think I’m correct in saying that a significant majority of all visitors attending Wembley Stadium for all events travel by train (including the underground). And, obviously, they are not all from London.

Yes Wembley Stadium is like the only station that both has a dedicated station on a mainline AND actually has enhanced services when the stadium is in use. Practically every other station near a football stadium was so poorly designed they have to close when the stadium is being used.