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Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

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Tio Terry

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Part of the issue can be down to the fact that few people have an overview of everything that they have to deal with on a project.

I once worked on a project (highways, not rail, but as there's less "departments" to deal with it highlights how much of an issue is likely to be with something which is more complex) where one of the large multi disciplinary consultants was designing the scheme for the contractor.

Problem was that they designed the drainage to pass through the middle of a medium pressure gas main which they had also designed the protection of.

Fortunately, having had a good understanding of the project we were able to highlight this to the client fairly quickly and it was all sorted out before they got to site. Otherwise you can only imagine the costs as the scheme grinds to a halt whilst a work around is sorted out.

The reason that it happened was that drainage and the structure designs were done in different parts of the country and the checking was done in each department rather than by someone who knew the overall scheme.

It's the sort of error which is easy enough to do (which is why I won't say which company did it), however it should also be fairly easy to protect against.

Things like combined drawings (which look a right mess but highlight which bits need to be cross checked for clashes) are helpful as then even someone with zero understanding of what's being shown can ask for clarification as to if (say) that cable can cross that pipe at that location of the two departments who created the drawings showing those elements.

It takes time and therefore costs money, but it's small change compared to the costs which can happen if there's significant delays on site, especially if they then have knock effects for future parts of the project.

I don't know if such issues arose on Crossrail, so the above isn't suggesting that it did. Rather just highlighting how sometimes things can go wrong if there's not the right people asking for the right things.

Normally, checking of signalling system designs is carried out by people totally independent of the design.

For physical conflicts of the sort you describe the processes are fairly simple. It's a totally different case for safety critical software used in signalling systems where there is no physical conflict to see on a drawing.
 
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InOban

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Has that been confirmed? The plan was that the contractors were given 24/7 possession of route for six weeks, by which time all platform work would be completed, allowing 24/7 dynamic testing to start.
However there was the possibility of extending the possession for another 2 weeks if necessary, and there have been reports that certain skills are in short supply, so I was thinking that it was likely that the extra two weeks might be needed.

It is more important that the all work needing contractor access to the platforms is complete, than starting dynamic testing on the planned date.
 

kevin_roche

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It looks like there has been a major shakeup at Crossrail.


Speaking at the Transport Times UK Rail Summit event this morning, Byford said: “I’m adopting a very directive approach. Yesterday, the Crossrail board resigned and, once I get the funding, I want to take control of that project – from the end of this month.”

Who thinks this is a good thing? Personally I have no idea.
 
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JN114

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Assuming all the station platform work is completed, the platform doors shield the construction workers from the trains and the railway is handed over for training etc, would there be any benefit to run the services non stop from Liverpool St to Paddington, assuming that some of those trains were for Heathrow airport or Reading ? Obviously the intermediate stations could open for service once commissioned by switching in the platform doors and obviously advising staff etc.

The stations are largely complete, the holdup at this stage is predominantly testing and validating the signalling system. That hasn’t really started in anger yet, the testing so far being relatively small-scale. But you can’t complete the station works while testing so there’s a trade off between completing stations quickly but delaying start of testing, or starting testing but dramatically reducing hours available for station work.

Opening the core non-stop isn’t practical, and doesn’t gain you anything.
 

Dstock7080

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Governance of the Crossrail programme transfers to TfL
Delivery of the Elizabeth line is now in its complex final stages with a comprehensive plan to complete the railway focused on the remaining construction and systems integration, followed by intensive operational testing.

Crossrail Ltd is working to complete the remaining infrastructure so it can fully test the railway and successfully transition the project as an operational railway to TfL.

The Crossrail programme has now reached the point for it to be handed over to TfL as the operator and maintainer of the railway.
 

Horizon22

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Interestingly this article came out today from the News Shopper (covers SE London). Not highly known for their accuracy though.


The construction of London’s major Crossrail project could grind to a halt without a £1.1b support package from the Government, with transport bosses warning funding for the scheme was becoming an “increasingly critical issue”.

A document tabled at a Transport for London finance committee this week paints an alarming picture for the project, with the firm behind its construction at risk of collapsing if a financial handout isn’t secured.

Any halt to the project would be a disaster for south-east London – with the long-awaited connection to Abbey Wood among the stations yet to be opened on the line.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Interestingly this article came out today from the News Shopper (covers SE London). Not highly known for their accuracy though.

Sadiq Khan needs a new bailout package for TfL agreed in the next 2 weeks, to avoid a major shutdown of services/projects.
He's pretty certain to get it from the Treasury, but likely with strings attached like the previous one in May.
I doubt Crossrail will be halted/mothballed at this late stage of development, but there may be consequences elsewhere.
This from the FT:
The submission from Mr Khan said the capital’s public transport network would need “at least” £5.65bn over the next 18 months because measures imposed to try to control the pandemic would continue to suppress passenger numbers.
The figure includes £750m to cover further extra costs of completing the delayed east-west Elizabeth line.
 
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HSTEd

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Well that sounds like the death of most of the inner London bus network.
 

Taunton

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I really do wonder what the latest "extra" Crossrail £750m this time is for that wasn't in the original plans or contracts. Surely all the contracts through to completion have been let now.

Sooner or later someone is going to come along and say this is becoming an Emperor Has No Clothes situation, more and more extra money keeps being demanded but the opening date gets no closer; maybe we should just write the investment off because nobody seems to know what they are doing. TfL are desperate for money but at the same time are tipping it down the drain on Crossrail.

Having just had a complete pause in train testing to let the station work alongside get finished, the latest I now read is that it wasn't finished and there needs to be further pauses later this year and into next to do more station work. That was never described before the recent pause. Does anyone have a grip on the programme?
 

philosopher

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I really do wonder what the latest "extra" Crossrail £750m this time is for that wasn't in the original plans or contracts. Surely all the contracts through to completion have been let now.

Sooner or later someone is going to come along and say this is becoming an Emperor Has No Clothes situation, more and more extra money keeps being demanded but the opening date gets no closer; maybe we should just write the investment off because nobody seems to know what they are doing. TfL are desperate for money but at the same time are tipping it down the drain on Crossrail.

Having just had a complete pause in train testing to let the station work alongside get finished, the latest I now read is that it wasn't finished and there needs to be further pauses later this year and into next to do more station work. That was never described before the recent pause. Does anyone have a grip on the programme?

With every month that passes Crossrail sounds more and more like a repeat of Berlin Brandenburg Airport situation.
 

nickswift99

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With every month that passes Crossrail sounds more and more like a repeat of Berlin Brandenburg Airport situation.
Except that's now apparently due to open at the end of October... I had a bet with a German colleague about which would open first, it seems highly likely I'll owe her a drink.
 

nickswift99

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Brandenburg did have a head start!
I don't think it did. According to Wikipedia, the start of the process for the airport was in 1991 and Brandenburg was chosen in 1996. While I was working at BR Research in 1991 I was performing simulation modelling for Crossrail timetables.

While the process in the UK and Germany isn't the same, I'd argue that Crossrail was conceived and mostly planned well before Brandenburg.,
 

JN114

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Brandenburg Construction started in 2006

Crossrail wasn’t authorised by parliament until 2007, and physical construction didn’t start until 2009.
 

Bald Rick

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I don't think it did. According to Wikipedia, the start of the process for the airport was in 1991 and Brandenburg was chosen in 1996. While I was working at BR Research in 1991 I was performing simulation modelling for Crossrail timetables.

While the process in the UK and Germany isn't the same, I'd argue that Crossrail was conceived and mostly planned well before Brandenburg.,

Crossrail was conceived in the 1930s if you look hard enough. But I was talking about construction.
 

nickswift99

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Crossrail was conceived in the 1930s if you look hard enough. But I was talking about construction.
It arguably existed with the cross London services using the line from Paddington to Liverpool St for their seaside holidays.

However, you can’t really use the date that construction is authorised as a baseline as there’s usually years of work needed before that.

In the case of Berlin airport the preparatory activities didn’t start until reunification.
 

SynthD

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Crossrail was a hands off project. Both its equal cosponsors thought it was a good idea at the time. Not sure what hand the then Mayor had in it, but I’m sure the person with the current purse strings could offer some explanation with the further bailout.
 

w1bbl3

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In theory TFL where one of five operators around the world recieve as much in farebox income as the system costs to operate. MTR (HongKong) and three Japanese system operators where the other four.

I would assume it refers to London Underground.

The TFL how we're funded page refers to everything TfL does, so tube, rail, buses and streets.

The actual funding split is Tube revenue £2.7bn, expenditure £2.3bn, Rail revenue £436m, expenditure £489m, buses revenue £1.4bn, expenditure £2.2bn, Crossrail revenue £147m, expenditure £363m. Tube is technically profit making everything else isn't.
 
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yorkie

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