Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

[matt_world2004]

I believe TfL make regular PA announcements of Tube status etc at Slough station and have done for a while. A great many people travel from Slough to London every day, so it's useful info.

I've heard them as far afield as Bristol temple meads it's not tfl it's the station operator deciding if they are useful.

 

[Non Multi]

They're just TfL adverts in the usual ad poster spaces on the old footbridge, nothing to see here.

 

[alastair]

No plans for TfL to take over the running of any more stations on the Western Arm. Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and the branches therefrom remain GWR stations

Although Modern Railways reports that TFL are currently in talks with NR and GWR to take over running of local trains from Paddington (main line) to Reading from December this year.

If that happens would that not mean TFL taking over most if not all intermediate stations?

 

[JN114]

Although Modern Railways reports that TFL are currently in talks with NR and GWR to take over running of local trains from Paddington (main line) to Reading from December this year.

If that happens would that not mean TFL taking over most if not all intermediate stations?

TfL already have taken over most the intermediate stations. The 3 they haven’t - Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford - were always going to be GW operated; even if all of Crossrail has been on time etc.

TfL’s ambitions to run services to/from Reading before the core is plumbed in has no bearing on this.

 

[alastair]

TfL already have taken over most the intermediate stations. The 3 they haven’t - Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford - were always going to be GW operated; even if all of Crossrail has been on time etc.

TfL’s ambitions to run services to/from Reading before the core is plumbed in has no bearing on this.

Thanks, appreciate your clarification.

 

[PR1Berske]

Interested by the more honest than usual coverage about the Crossrail delay on the BBC documentary shown this month.

 

[Chris125]

Seemingly in connection with the TV program, a 45min cabride of the first test train has been uploaded (sadly without audio):

 

[rd749249]

There is audio but it's very faint. The vigilance alarm goes off around 2.25

Seems like a max 23mph run in SA (staff accountable) mode given the likely absence of a protected signalling system at that time.

 

[samuelmorris]

There is audio but it's very faint. The vigilance alarm goes off around 2.25

Seems like a max 23mph run in SA (staff accountable) mode given the likely absence of a protected signalling system at that time.

Thanks for pointing that out - indeed, there is audio just with the volume massively reduced. I've taken the audio channel from the file, amplified it by 40dB and there is full audio throughout the video. It's a bit phone quality, but anyone so-inclined could certainly hear some interesting conversation about the testing process from it. I wonder why they chose to do that rather than mute the audio entirely?

Also, some of that run is much faster than 23mph - 11 minutes onwards for example.

 

[Taunton]

I just find these little test trips, now and then, to be extraordinary given all the delays in hand. They should surely be out testing 24x7, with multiple shifts. I presume all the staff for a December 2018 startup were all in place back last summer.

 

[samuelmorris]

I just find these little test trips, now and then, to be extraordinary given all the delays in hand. They should surely be out testing 24x7, with multiple shifts. I presume all the staff for a December 2018 startup were all in place back last summer.

The problem is, at this early stage, there may be so much test data to sift through, or so many issues to resolve, that there simply isn't any need to test continuously. Only once things are mostly resolved with the train & signalling systems integration would thorough testing begin in earnest. We aren't at that stage yet.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I just find these little test trips, now and then, to be extraordinary given all the delays in hand. They should surely be out testing 24x7, with multiple shifts. I presume all the staff for a December 2018 startup were all in place back last summer.

The station construction is still ongoing, so they can only test in a short window every two weeks when the line is cleared of construction work. At least that was the case in November when the documentary was filmed, and I think I remember articles referring to it as well.

 

[InOban]

It was explained in the first part of the documentary that they get a 48hiur window every two weeks to operate test trains. The rest of the time the tracks are used by engineering trains delivering materials (p!atform edge doors etc) to the work sites. The installation of these at Tottenham Court Road took ten weeks longer than planned so.....

 

[PR1Berske]

I just find these little test trips, now and then, to be extraordinary given all the delays in hand. They should surely be out testing 24x7, with multiple shifts. I presume all the staff for a December 2018 startup were all in place back last summer.

With construction ongoing, it's not possible to test 24x7.

 

[theking]

Few videos I've seen always seems to be on the down in the up direction or up in the down direction I wonder why.

 

[InOban]

Which direction is up on a route which crosses London?

 

[samuelmorris]

Which direction is up on a route which crosses London?

I've no idea but I'm assuming he's referring to the fact the train is running on the right hand side, which is contrary to expected convention.

 

[DerekC]

Which direction is up on a route which crosses London?

I should imagine they will be eastbound and westbound, LUL style.

 

[rd749249]

The COS is fully bi-directional including the transition areas to NR. Such testing is going on right now where FLUs are going into and out of SRA bi-di on both up and down electric lines.

 

[matt_world2004]

The COS is fully bi-directional including the transition areas to NR. Such testing is going on right now where FLUs are going into and out of SRA bi-di on both up and down electric lines.

Does this mean there would be the possibility of single line working during engineering works and nights?

 

[plcd1]

I just find these little test trips, now and then, to be extraordinary given all the delays in hand. They should surely be out testing 24x7, with multiple shifts. I presume all the staff for a December 2018 startup were all in place back last summer.

No longer the case. The latest Crossrail update sent to the London Assembly says that dynamic testing is now running 4 days out of 7. It also confirms that some testing of the ETCS signalling in the Heathrow tunnel has been carried out.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/february-2019.pdf

I'm not going to quote the entire document as it's 3 pages long.

Dear Caroline,

Last month the project hit a critical milestone with the start of Main Dynamic Testing (MDT) on 14 January as planned. Dynamic testing is essential as it enables the team to find any errors or defects in the software in both the trains and the signalling systems. Dynamic testing remains one of two critical paths for the project alongside the completion of stations (including testing and integration of their systems) and this was an important step forward for the project. Leaders from across the project and MTR (the operator) continue to undertake work to define the priority tasks needed to deliver the earliest opening programme (EOP). They reported back to the Crossrail Ltd (CRL) Board at the end of January 2019 and will now progress with the development of a more detailed delivery plan.

Please find below the rest of this month’s update on the Crossrail project for the Transport Committee of the Assembly.

The Mayoral update for Dec 2018 (the last one published) gives a bit more insight on some aspects of progress. Some aspects are redacted.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/weekly-mayor-update-191218-redacted.pdf

Again only a small quote as it's several pages long

TRANSPORT FOR LONDON BRIEFING NOTE Subject: Weekly Mayoral update on Crossrail / Elizabeth line Date: 19 December 2018

 

[samuelmorris]

Not sure who linked me to this, I thought it was from this thread but can't see it, so I'll copy the link here

Quite an interesting insight. His personal opinion on completion date largely tallies with mine, some time in the middle of 2020.

 

[rd749249]

Does this mean there would be the possibility of single line working during engineering works and nights?

I doubt it. SLW only occurs through signal failures or similar operational failures.

 

[JN114]

Single Line Working won’t be used because both lines are Bi-Directionally signalled.

As with Thameslink and other busy 2-track railways; on Crossrail this is provided as a contingency to get around serious failures; as capacity will be severely limited by trains running wrong-line. The likelihood of it seeing planned use is thus virtually nought.

 

[plcd1]

Not sure who linked me to this, I thought it was from this thread but can't see it, so I'll copy the link here

Quite an interesting insight. His personal opinion on completion date largely tallies with mine, some time in the middle of 2020.

Well there's someone who's gone on multiple company blacklists for making that video. Brave of him to speak out but any contracting company will be wary of someone making those sorts of comments once off the job. I know it's not very fair but being told to keep your mouth shut is widespread practice across umpteen industries including construction.

Relatively interesting remarks but not sure some of his logic hangs together on a couple of points. The introduction of the ULEZ is nothing to do with bailing out Crossrail's finances. The ULEZ was a Boris Johnson initiative albeit being brought in a bit earlier by the current Mayor. Also the cost overruns on Crossrail are funded via mechanisms external to TfL's income. Also not exactly a shock that people had "flexible" definitions as to what was complete work in order to achieve a bonus payment or that work scheduling was not all it could or should have been.

 

[Howardh]

This has probably been discussed elsewhere but specifically I'm asking what's the future for Heathrow Express when this new line's up and running - from Heathrow to Paddington and central London? Looking at the map, looks like the new line won't take that much longer even if it calls at all stations, so is the express gonna be worth carrying on with? Or will the express have reduced fares to make it more attractive?

 

[samuelmorris]

This has probably been discussed elsewhere but specifically I'm asking what's the future for Heathrow Express when this new line's up and running - from Heathrow to Paddington and central London? Looking at the map, looks like the new line won't take that much longer even if it calls at all stations, so is the express gonna be worth carrying on with? Or will the express have reduced fares to make it more attractive?

I imagine it'll depend on the quality of the 387 refit. If they're basically like 387/2s in that all they do is put in extra luggage racks, the service will probably be dead and buried within 5-10 years. If they receive a 332-standard refit it may live on.

 

[JN114]

HEX will continue until at least 2028 as that’s how long the operating contract and track access agreement is for.

 

[Howardh]

HEX will continue until at least 2028 as that’s how long the operating contract and track access agreement is for.

What if people start to move away from it though? Would they reduce the prices to get more pax on?

 

[matt_world2004]

This has probably been discussed elsewhere but specifically I'm asking what's the future for Heathrow Express when this new line's up and running - from Heathrow to Paddington and central London? Looking at the map, looks like the new line won't take that much longer even if it calls at all stations, so is the express gonna be worth carrying on with? Or will the express have reduced fares to make it more attractive?

One thing I am curious about is how is oyster going to distinguish between hex and Crossrail passengers bearing in mind hex won't have dedicated platforms at old oak Common.