Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

[hwl]

Does that take an additional 76 weeks and counting to do or is it just that they don't have the expertise to do it available?

I don't know if the Evening Standard selectively reported the spokes persons statement but if not, I think TfL should have explained the reason for the delay.

There again if I was in their shoes, would I? Perhaps not.

Very odd they didn't replace it in my view... (I have for the last 5 years)
I have a suspicion that they might have cut replacement in the 2010/1 cuts to save money and aimed to be sort it out cheaply instead. At a guess the studding holding the guardrails to the concrete had corroded and which point it starts getting expensive. Is the concrete good enough to fit new studs too reliably. How much life does it have left e.g. will they be replacing in 10-20 years time?
Probably needed extra budget sign off to get things moving. NR have had plenty of disasters with older footbridges and OHLE too but never that bad.

 

[infobleep]

Very odd they didn't replace it in my view... (I have for the last 5 years)
I have a suspicion that they might have cut replacement in the 2010/1 cuts to save money and aimed to be sort it out cheaply instead. At a guess the studding holding the guardrails to the concrete had corroded and which point it starts getting expensive. Is the concrete good enough to fit new studs too reliably. How much life does it have left e.g. will they be replacing in 10-20 years time?
Probably needed extra budget sign off to get things moving. NR have had plenty of disasters with older footbridges and OHLE too but never that bad.

Well being honest might be good. I bet it was sometime before they said it would be completed by September.

 

[plcd1]

The new TfL Budget for next year has three interesting assumptions with regard to Crossrail.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20190327-agenda-pt1.pdf

(That's a very large document, over 200 pages of Board papers, which is not appropriate for quoting in full. Instead here is a short quote from the Crossrail part of the budget document. I hope the Forum Mods are content with this approach)

The operating deficit is forecast to be £13m better than our expectation from the Business Plan, as we have updated our assumptions and made small phasing changes. We continue to work hard to reduce the financial and customer impact of the delayed opening of the central section, with confirmation of the opening timetable expected from Crossrail Limited by the end of April 2019. This Budget assumes that we will start running surface-level services from Paddington to Reading in the last quarter of 2019/20.

The variances in operating income and costs against the Business Plan represent changes in assumptions for central section regulatory income and costs that will not be received in 2019/20. The net impact of these charges on the Elizabeth line operating deficit is nil. Underlying operating costs, excluding central section regulatory charges, will be lower than we assumed in November, with further savings to be realised from opening delays.

- confirmation of a possible opening schedule in April 2019.
- TfL are assuming that the core tunnel services will commence in the final quarter of 2019/20 (therefore Jan to March 2020).
- TfL are assuming £28m worth of extra revenue from the take up of Paddington to Reading services in December 2019.

 

[hwl]

The new TfL Budget for next year has three interesting assumptions with regard to Crossrail.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20190327-agenda-pt1.pdf

(That's a very large document, over 200 pages of Board papers, which is not appropriate for quoting in full. Instead here is a short quote from the Crossrail part of the budget document. I hope the Forum Mods are content with this approach)



- confirmation of a possible opening schedule in April 2019.
- TfL are assuming that the core tunnel services will commence in the final quarter of 2019/20 (therefore Jan to March 2020).
- TfL are assuming £28m worth of extra revenue from the take up of Paddington to Reading services in December 2019.

The partial extra Paddington take over is lucrative as expected...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The partial extra Paddington take over is lucrative as expected...

One presumes GWR are then reaping the rewards of the late takeover for the moment?

 

[hwl]

One presumes GWR are then reaping the rewards of the late takeover for the moment?

Not so far, always Dec 19 for the transfer, but less than expected will now be transferred in December as the core will need to be fully open etc.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Not so far, always Dec 19 for the transfer, but less than expected will now be transferred in December as the core will need to be fully open etc.

Ah, but still a benefit for them.

 

[ijmad]

Is December's TfL takeover likely to bring any service improvements to West London (as there would have been with Crossrail), or is there not enough platform capacity at Paddington?

It'd be nice to get more than a half hourly service to the airport. I'm sure locals in West London would appreciate the benefits of 4tph or 6ph as well.

 

[JN114]

The intention is, as I understand, for 4tph to Heathrow to start as soon as the 345s are cleared to operate on the Heathrow branch in passenger service - the existing terminate at Hayes situation is a byproduct of insufficient ATP-fitted stock to run services to Heathrow.

There won’t be a material increase in number of services serving Paddington High Level; it is just broadly similar services to now transferring operators from GW to TfL; with the caveat that December should include the big clean-sheet GWR timetable, which will be somewhat different to now; different calling patterns etc

Details still being finalised but principally:-
Off-Peak
2tph GW Paddington - Didcot
2tph XR Paddington - Reading
4tph XR Paddington - T4

Peak
4tph XR Paddington - Reading
4tph XR Paddington - T4
Various GW Paddington - Didcot/Reading/Newbury semi-fast services, nominally first/last stop Slough or Maidenhead.

You can’t really increase above that level without struggling with platforms at Paddington.

 

[kevin_roche]

Crossrail's core is installing a Siemens/Invensys CBTC system. Thameslink's core is a Siemens ETCS Level 2 system, which also provides ATO. I am not clear on the differences between these two systems, or why the Crossrail core seems not to be ETCS. Perhaps someone else can fill the gaps.

Both systems use the same EuroBalise to tell the train where it is when it passes over the device, they both use odometer readings to estimate their position until they reach the next one. ETCS Level 2 uses GSM-R messages sent over GPRS (~800 Mhz) to send its position and receive movement authorities from the signalling system. Trainguard MT uses a wifi system (I think it runs at 2.2 GHz unlike house wifi which is 2.4 GHz). The higher speed allows more frequent updates to the signalling system. On crossrail the updates are sent every 0.4 seconds.

 

[matt_world2004]

The intention is, as I understand, for 4tph to Heathrow to start as soon as the 345s are cleared to operate on the Heathrow branch in passenger service - the existing terminate at Hayes situation is a byproduct of insufficient ATP-fitted stock to run services to Heathrow.

There won’t be a material increase in number of services serving Paddington High Level; it is just broadly similar services to now transferring operators from GW to TfL; with the caveat that December should include the big clean-sheet GWR timetable, which will be somewhat different to now; different calling patterns etc

Details still being finalised but principally:-
Off-Peak
2tph GW Paddington - Didcot
2tph XR Paddington - Reading
4tph XR Paddington - T4

Peak
4tph XR Paddington - Reading
4tph XR Paddington - T4
Various GW Paddington - Didcot/Reading/Newbury semi-fast services, nominally first/last stop Slough or Maidenhead.

You can’t really increase above that level without struggling with platforms at Paddington.

Even after the tunnel opened there was plans for an residual gwr service of 2tph to call at Hayes and Ealing Broadway. Will then this be withdrawn to return when the tunnel opens?

 

[hwl]

Both systems use the same EuroBalise to tell the train where it is when it passes over the device, they both use odometer readings to estimate their position until they reach the next one. ETCS Level 2 uses GSM-R messages sent over GPRS (~800 Mhz) to send its position and receive movement authorities from the signalling system. Trainguard MT uses a wifi system (I think it runs at 2.2 GHz unlike house wifi which is 2.4 GHz). The higher speed allows more frequent updates to the signalling system. On crossrail the updates are sent every 0.4 seconds.

TrainGaurd MT can use 2.2GHz but does it on Crossrail? Several different frequencies have been used in previous installations elsewhere.

 

[ijmad]

Even after the tunnel opened there was plans for an residual gwr service of 2tph to call at Hayes and Ealing Broadway. Will then this be withdrawn to return when the tunnel opens?

I thought that had turned in to the 2tph Heathrow T5 service that has now been confirmed? In the latest timetable plans that had been circulating, there doesn't seem to be anything terminating at Hayes and Harlington.

 

[hwl]

Even after the tunnel opened there was plans for an residual gwr service of 2tph to call at Hayes and Ealing Broadway. Will then this be withdrawn to return when the tunnel opens?

That morphed into the 2nd pair of peak Reading CR services. The Maidenhead CR services will the extra addition (all day) when the tunnel opens along with T5. Off peak there were plans for GWR to retain 2tph (Didcot) as per JN114 post but what happens with those long term isn't clear.

 

[matt_world2004]

I thought that had turned in to the 2tph Heathrow T5 service that has now been confirmed? In the latest timetable plans that had been circulating, there doesn't seem to be anything terminating at Hayes and Harlington.

That was originally the peak west Drayton terminators extended to run off peak and run to terminal 5 instead there is still the residual gwr service.

 

[HSTEd]

Whats the rationale for a residual GW service to Didcot?

Doesn't that just confuse passengers by splitting services over Paddington High and Low Level?

 

[JN114]

Whats the rationale for a residual GW service to Didcot?

Doesn't that just confuse passengers by splitting services over Paddington High and Low Level?

Through service from local stations between Reading and Didcot to London, no capacity on Mains to run them non-stop from Reading; so they run on the reliefs.

Crossrail trains won’t ordinarily terminate at Paddington from the Reading direction; so I anticipate the confusion would be minimal; all the Crossrail trains will be advertised as Abbey Wood / Sheffield.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Whats the rationale for a residual GW service to Didcot?

All stations to Paddington takes rather a long time from Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough.

 

[Trainfan344]

Crossrail trains won’t ordinarily terminate at Paddington from the Reading direction; so I anticipate the confusion would be minimal; all the Crossrail trains will be advertised as Abbey Wood / Sheffield.

Didn't realise the wires had reached that far. Looking forwards to the Direct Derby to Twyford service.

 

[JN114]

Didn't realise the wires had reached that far. Looking forwards to the Direct Derby to Twyford service.

Auto-correct failure; I of course mean Shenfield

 

[ijmad]

Auto-correct failure; I of course mean Shenfield

Do not underestimate Hull Trains attempting to book unused off peak paths through the core tunnels for a Class 802 service to Southend Airport.

 

[matt_world2004]

Does anyone know if the all night services from Paddington to Reading will be Tfl Rail or GWR I know they are every two hours but I am dependent on getting them into work.

 

[JN114]

GWR in December 2019. Longer Term they’ll likely go over to Crossrail but it’ll be tied to full service introduction.

 

[matt_world2004]

GWR in December 2019. Longer Term they’ll likely go over to Crossrail but it’ll be tied to full service introduction.

Ah shame, I was looking forward to not having to pay for them

 

[JN114]

Ah shame, I was looking forward to not having to pay for them

There was some kind of staff travel deal for London-based GWR staff on Crossrail services briefed out when the TV Inner stations transferred to MTR. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of reciprocal arrangement once TfL are running the vast majority of services.

 

[matt_world2004]

There was some kind of staff travel deal for London-based GWR staff on Crossrail services briefed out when the TV Inner stations transferred to MTR. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of reciprocal arrangement once TfL are running the vast majority of services.

I believe there is a reciprocal agreement for MTR staff to travel on GWR. Currently the agreement doesn't cover employees of other modes except during times of disruption and I think that will remain the case if the the pattern of other concessions have been anything to go by. Certainly if there was full ticket acceptance on GWR it would mean GWR would be required to carry all freedom pass holders too which would be a huge financial burden to them.

 

[HSTEd]

Through service from local stations between Reading and Didcot to London, no capacity on Mains to run them non-stop from Reading; so they run on the reliefs.

Crossrail trains won’t ordinarily terminate at Paddington from the Reading direction; so I anticipate the confusion would be minimal; all the Crossrail trains will be advertised as Abbey Wood / Sheffield.

I meant in the westbound direction!

I suppose you would have to trade off the confusion caused by splitting them at Paddington with the confusion of having a 'Didcot (Express)' calling pattern on crossrail.

 

[Goldfish62]

There was some kind of staff travel deal for London-based GWR staff on Crossrail services briefed out when the TV Inner stations transferred to MTR. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of reciprocal arrangement once TfL are running the vast majority of services.

What actually happened was that GWR staff lost their free travel on the former Heathrow Connect, ie inners, but gained free travel on Heathrow Express. TfL staff gained free travel on the former Heathrow Connect, now TfL Rail services.

 

[matt_world2004]

What actually happened was that GWR staff lost their free travel on the former Heathrow Connect, ie inners, but gained free travel on Heathrow Express. TfL staff gained free travel on the former Heathrow Connect, now TfL Rail services.

I see gwr uniformed staff on the connects all the time. My understanding is they get free duty related travel between stations in return for MTR staff getting free travel to stations they operate

 

[Goldfish62]

I see gwr uniformed staff on the connects all the time. My understanding is they get free duty related travel between stations in return for MTR staff getting free travel to stations they operate

Ah, so you mean duty travel. I was talking about free travel facilities.