Crossrail opening delayed until sometime between October 2020 and March 2021

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by gavin, 31 Aug 2018.

  1. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    I agree. But I think it's the least of what needs to be done.
     
  2. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    If canary wharf had an agreement with tfl to build the station by a certain date and the specification of the station wasn't ready by then. Then it would be TfL fault. However if they went ahead and built the station without agreement from TfL or crossrail then canary wharf group should pay.
     
  3. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    So the German do things better eh?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48527308

     
  4. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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  5. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    He'll be gone tomorrow then :E
     
  6. 700007

    700007 Established Member

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    Cheeky!
     
  7. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Building reports:

    https://www.building.co.uk/news/pla...ail-to-be-firmed-up-in-autumn/5100556.article

     
  8. silverfoxcc

    silverfoxcc Member

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    I knew it was never going to happen as planned when there said there were no toilets on the new trains :)
     
  9. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    For those east of the city, there were no trains on the existing trains either, nor are there on any other tube services. It may not be popular with those in Maidenhead and Twyford, but no toilets on the trains was absolutely the right decision, as long as the toilets at stations are open at acceptable hours.
     
  10. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    They won't be. They won't even exist.
     
  11. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Theres currently toilets at Heathrow Airport Terminal 4, Heathrow terminals 1,2,3, Hayes and harlington, Southall, Hanwell, Ealing Broadway, Paddington on the tfl rail west route. Thats 7 out of 9 stations, a performance metric given to MTR is the availability of these toilets so i dont knkw why you think they wont be available post Elizabeth line.
     
  12. silverfoxcc

    silverfoxcc Member

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    I am with mmh on that. It is a retrograde step. instead of making the service better for those on the east side, they have lowered the bar for those on the west, No doubt there will be the usual Luddites telling us to get off the train and use the facilities, but why should we? and IIRC the services on the east side did have toilets, not on all services and not on the Enfield and Chingford lines, but they were there, mind i am going back to the 1970's
     
  13. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    The frequency enhancements for most stations on the west side will mean that even if you get off the train for a pee. In most circumstances your journey will still be quicker than before crossrail. The reason why there is no toilets on the class 345s is they sre predicting that by 2041 the morning peak would see 4 passengers per square metre standing between old oak and west drayton. There simply isnt the capacity to provide toilets

    There will be no further frequency reductions of GwR services after january 2020 and when the core opens there will be frequency increases of crossrail.
     
  14. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    The 317s had toilets, but only as a coincidence of the same stock that ran Cambridge services also being used on those routes. I don't recall if the toilets are still operational at the moment but they soon won't be once the 710s take over.
    It's a little different for me as I have great difficulty using a toilet on a vehicle that's bouncing around, so I almost exclusively use station toilets unless waiting at a terminus anyway, but honestly, decreasing the standing capacity of every train in the peak through central London by double figures on every train just so those at the far extremity of the line can use the toilet? It doesn't add up, that's just one of the necessary evils of adding the service to Crossrail in the first place. Most stations far enough out to have an issue with this will still have semi-fast services to Paddington run with 387s that will have toilets in any case.
     
  15. si404

    si404 Member

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    luddites were against change, and preferred artisan products that ticked boxes, but couldn't provide enough supply verses adequate products that could serve the masses. That sounds like those demand trains with toilets, viewing all the improvements the Liz will bring as being outweighed by this negative.

    The Luddite movement had the Tolpuddle martyrs, perhaps this new wave will see the TCR puddle martyrs who wet themselves on trains as they refuse to get out at one of the many stations with facilities that will meet their need and instead go in trains with none! <D
     
  16. Non Multi

    Non Multi Member

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    You've reminded me of an anecdote that I've never posted here.

    At the start of 2018 I was able to take my first electric train ride from my local station, to Goring and Streatley on a new GWR 387. At Reading the train stopped for 15 or so minutes. A young family boarded and sat down opposite. One of the parents exclaimed, "These are the new Crossrail trains!" I decided not to interrupt and point out their error.

    The funny thing is that the Electrostars were an evolution of the 1990's Networker design for CrossRail. The class 341 mock-up had a Thameslink-like suburban train interior, rather than the metro train one TfL has foisted upon us. So ironically these are CrossRail trains, just not the Crossrail trains that TfL wanted.
     
  17. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Good luck getting off in a hurry. :(
     
  18. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    The Chingford / Enfield services were class 305 3-cars without toilets and the Gidea Park / Shenfield services before class 315s were class 306 without toilets. Only Ilford, Harold Wood & Brentwood have lost trains with toilets when the Southend semis started to run fast from Shenfield, stopping only at Romford & Stratford
     
  19. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    The west had class 117s, with a toilet 1 one car only without gangways until later years. The class 165/166s may have had toilets but getting to them was a challenge due to over crowding. The 387s are toilet heaven and will still cover the outer stations for those with the need to go.
     
  20. LeeLivery

    LeeLivery Established Member

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    From the Evening Standard this hour: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1562924087

     
  21. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    I wonder when the text of the report is being released. All Google will give me right now is an offer for Free Jacobs Mini Cheddars. Might have to take that to cheer me up.

    Edit: I found it. It will take a while to read.

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-reports-period-2-2019.pdf

    Further Edit: The items of concern in the report are all on Page 35

     
    Last edited: 12 Jul 2019
  22. jellybaby

    jellybaby Member

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    Easier than fighting through 4 standing passengers per square metre to get to a toilet a couple of carriages away.
     
  23. si404

    si404 Member

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    Crossrail Projects YouTube channel has just dropped update videos for Bond Street, TCR and Woolwich stations. I presume this is to try and reassure that they aren't just dallying about. The Bond Street one was especially emphasising that they were doing everything they can and it's really hard due to constraints of the work site.
     
  24. si404

    si404 Member

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    more than 4 is what the crowding map marks for trains entering Greater London from the west (those nice Heathrow trains provide some emptier trains for West London passengers to get on).

    And higher than without the loos - a disabled loo takes up a good 20+ people's standing space at 4/sq m, so that's more dense elsewhere.
     
  25. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    4 pax sqm is pretty much capacity, you can get 5pax a sqm during special events where generally everyone is getting on and off at the same stop but it really isnt pleasent. 4pax a sqm is peak time jubilee.
     
  26. theking

    theking Member

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    People can't even get on trains on the east at peaks and people worry about toilets. If you need one on the west stick to GWR.

    It's a metro service not a long distance cruiser.
     
  27. colchesterken

    colchesterken Member

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    As an older person I think either there should be toilets on the train or at all stations on route
    I am an immigrant to Essex, I used to live in Forest Gate, When I was a commuter in the 70s there was a nice 1930s station with toilets on both platforms. There was also a public toilet about 100yds from the station, did not need them then
    Now all gone. When I go abroad to London I restrict my liquid intake !
     
  28. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    That's the point, the train doesn't really need a toilet but the stations definitely do, and it needs to be open when the station is open. It's not difficult, there is room at the vast majority of stations for one and most stations have them, the opening hours are just a lottery. At least on the TfL Rail side of things they seem to be open fairly late. The one at Stratford though, the less said about that the better. It'd be as comfortable, hygienic and private just to drop your trousers on the platform. At least there you have the option of wandering into Westfield for something vaguely civilised.
     
  29. LeeLivery

    LeeLivery Established Member

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    It's quite amazing how far behind this all is.
     
  30. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    They were 18 months - 2 years behind before the announcement, and now that's come out progress has obviously slowed while they take stock of how far they'd actually got and sort out extensions to contracts etc. It's not surprising to see it fall further behind.
     

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