Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

[jellybaby]

Has there been any update on testing? The stations in the last videos apart from whitechapel and bond Street look mostly complete. But very little news I can see about testing, which is worrying.

I think they are showing you the complete looking bits. For example the lift from the Northern line at Moorgate is far from ready with incomplete wiring and no finished surfaces (floor, ceiling or walls) but that wasn't picked out in the Liverpool Street video. It's a small bit but I expect there are many similar bits still to finish.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Has there been any update on testing? The stations in the last videos apart from whitechapel and bond Street look mostly complete. But very little news I can see about testing, which is worrying.

Heres the latest report from Mark Wild to TfL which sounds positive although no tangible dates other than Summer 21.

Central Section Progress The PD+11 signalling software configuration is now being used in the Central Operating Section, paving the way for the next waves of signalling testing. PD+11 is now safety approved for testing all areas of the railway including using single train, multi-train and closeheadway, as well as with multiple trains running across the transition boundaries. There are also four ‘point releases’ of software updates planned for PD+11, providing the opportunity to bring forward any necessary bug fixes to enter Trial Running on the best footing. Work continues to progress the works to a stage that supports Trial Running and best sets the programme up to deliver central section passenger services in Summer 2021, and there is increasing confidence that Bond Street station will be ready to open with the rest of the central section Positively, there has been an increase in the level of productivity at Bond Street station for activities leading to Staged Completion 1 (the required state for Trial Running). A review is underway to see what lessons can be captured from this increase in productivity to be applied elsewhere on the programme.

 

[silverfoxcc]

Nick
The reports sounded positively glowing back in 2016 IIRC

 

[mrmartin]

It's frustrating how little public facing transparency is coming out of crossrail IMO considering the massive overspend.

We've had the odd video on their youtube channel of station completion, plus a couple of meaningless explainer videos.

Any actual updates are hidden away in City Hall or TfL board meeting notes (which I'm sure if they didn't have to publish, they wouldn't), and even these are pretty vague with a lot of 'optimistic' sounding language. I'm not entirely sure how much has changed here. I don't understand, for example, how station productivity at bond street has increased substantially, but the whole project has been put back 6-9 months.

My personal guess is that train testing/signalling is still a total mess. It may be a coincidence, but eg: platform doors didn't open on the last video (liverpool street), and the destination signs had nonsense in them (bond street) - there's no way test trains are running to T5 for example. I'm sure they would highlight platform doors opening working if they did properly.

Very little hope here to be honest. Considering it took ~18months late to get similar trains working on the GOBLIN which is a pretty simple operating environment, I really doubt it is going any better on crossrail.

 

[SamYeager]

A good idea in principle, but is it legal ?
I’ve never heard of such practices happening other than CEOs etc of failing companies shamed through public & media pressure into returning or declining bonuses

Following the fun and games in the finance sector in 2008/9 I believe a number (most? all?) of companies changed their bonus payment rules such that a proportion was deferred a few years and the amounts paid could be clawed back if specific instances. How feasible it is to implement such a scheme in the construction sector is another matter of course.

 

[Taunton]

Following the fun and games in the finance sector in 2008/9 I believe a number (most? all?) of companies changed their bonus payment rules such that a proportion was deferred a few years and the amounts paid could be clawed back if specific instances. How feasible it is to implement such a scheme in the construction sector is another matter of course.

Construction has the long-etsablished Retention approach, only paid out at contract completion, but it's commonly only 5% for building/fitout works, 3% for civils, and is really just to encourage small-scale remedials.

There is, more seriously, Liquidated & Ascertained Damages (LADs) which can be substantial, but only come in to play where the works have not been certified as completed. As I understand it, if Crossrail have been telling porkies to The Mayor on what is complete, they have likewise been issuing Completion Certificates to the contractors.

 

[matt_world2004]

I walked past paddington the other day.it is still a building site there is no glass panels in what appears to be one of the station entrances paving around the station had not yet been laid

 

[Trailfinder]

My personal guess is that train testing/signalling is still a total mess. It may be a coincidence, but eg: platform doors didn't open on the last video (liverpool street), and the destination signs had nonsense in them (bond street) - there's no way test trains are running to T5 for example. I'm sure they would highlight platform doors opening working if they did properly.

Can I suggest you read the Class 345 thread regarding testing to Heathrow and by the way there are not platform doors at Heathrow stations.

 

[JN114]

Can I suggest you read the Class 345 thread regarding testing to Heathrow and by the way there are not platform doors at Heathrow stations.

I’m not sure any of that is what the quoted poster is suggesting.

 

[uvarvu]

So NR posted a video showing how a plain tunnel gets fitted out - I found this quite interesting, especially the machinery that drilled holes into the lining for all of the conduits.

 

[ScotGG]

Is Plumstead complete yet?

 

[Bald Rick]

So NR posted a video showing how a plain tunnel gets fitted out - I found this quite interesting, especially the machinery that drilled holes into the lining for all of the conduits.

Interestingly, that machine was only needed because the spec for the tunnel concrete lining didn’t include the pre drilled holes for the necessary equipment.

 

[crablab]

spec for the tunnel concrete lining didn’t include the pre drilled holes for the necessary equipment.

Any context behind that might have been?

 

[hwl]

Any context behind that might have been?

That Crossrail didn't do joined up thinking because they had philosophy of trying to avoid having a big central mind and letting contractors do the thinking so a focus on simplify and sub divide things to avoid having a big central mind.

It didn't turn out well.

They also had big focus on civils and not systems.

 

[Taunton]

Interestingly, that machine was only needed because the spec for the tunnel concrete lining didn’t include the pre drilled holes for the necessary equipment.

It's been a good while since I (peripherally) did a tunnel but I recall the linings were designed and delivered plain, and were drilled for various items post-installation. Are we sure this wasn't the intent?

 

[kevin_roche]

Any context behind that might have been?

I'm guessing that some flexibility was required in the placement of the indvidual concrete lining pieces while tunnelling. It would have been bad to stop tunneling because one the pieces was dropped and broken and then another same size piece could not be used beacuse it had the wrong arrangement of holes.

 

[hwl]

I'm guessing that some flexibility was required in the placement of the indvidual concrete lining pieces while tunnelling. It would have been bad to stop tunneling because one the pieces was dropped and broken and then another same size piece could not be used beacuse it had the wrong arrangement of holes.

The fittings can be designed with slots etc to be flexible for bolt hole alignment.

They ended up with a hole drilling train effectively blocking the tunnels/tracks for months for other logistics moves and this may not have been fully though through originally.

 

[Taunton]

They ended up with a hole drilling train effectively blocking the tunnels/tracks for months for other logistics moves and this may not have been fully though through originally.

Well in the one I saw (above), there was no expensive specialist train, just a couple of guys with wheeled step platforms following closely behind the lining installation team. An engineer marked up the positions from the drawing, and an operative with a big drill did the necessary.

Of course, being a Crossrail contractor one doesn't do £100k of work in a month when one can do £100m of work, including custom-made fancy equipment, in a year.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm guessing that some flexibility was required in the placement of the indvidual concrete lining pieces while tunnelling. It would have been bad to stop tunneling because one the pieces was dropped and broken and then another same size piece could not be used beacuse it had the wrong arrangement of holes.

Each complete set of segments forming a ring has a taper or wedge shape, (ie the sides of the segments are not parallel), and in a straight tunnel they alternate the taper. Then rotating the successive sets is how they deal with vertical or horizontal curvature. I suspect drilling post installation might actually be easier than adjustable or sliding fittings.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well in the one I saw (above), there was no expensive specialist train, just a couple of guys with wheeled step platforms following closely behind the lining installation team. An engineer marked up the positions from the drawing, and an operative with a big drill did the necessary.

Of course, being a Crossrail contractor one doesn't do £100k of work in a month when one can do £100m of work, including custom-made fancy equipment, in a year.

How long was that tunnel?

 

[bspahh]

The Engineer's Collective podcast https://www.newcivilengineer.com/podcast/ has an audio interview with
Running mega projects and lessons learned with Crossrail’s Mark Wild (February 2020)
The bit on Crossrail is 9 mins 30 seconds in. It goes on for another 40 minutes. You can download it as an MP3 file from a button in the player to the left of the screen.

 

[HSTEd]

Shouldn't the wiring and other fittings have been designed to minimise the different number of hole configurations required?

 

[kevin_roche]

Shouldn't the wiring and other fittings have been designed to minimise the different number of hole configurations required?

Its actually not the configuration of the hole but of the concrete lining pieces that changes from ring to ring along the tunnel.

 

[Snow1964]

Building magazine has commented on Southall station and Hayes and Harlington station completion looking like slipping from 2020 to Q1 2021

Also says there remain doubts that Stage 2B (Heathrow service) will happen by Spring 2020 (as per previous TfL target), now looking like at least May

https://www.building.co.uk/news/software-glitches-continue-to-dog-crossrail/5104836.article

Graham is carrying out improvement works at Acton, West Ealing and Ealing Broadway stations which will all be serviced by the Crossrail route.

Hochtief is carrying out similar work at three other west London stations with Crossrail stops, Hayes and Harlington, Southall and West Drayton.

All six stations are due to be finished by the end of the year, but there are concerns Hayes and Harlington and Southall stations will not be complete until the first quarter of 2021.

 

[matt_world2004]

Building magazine has commented on Southall station and Hayes and Harlington station completion looking like slipping from 2020 to Q1 2021

Also says there remain doubts that Stage 2B (Heathrow service) will happen by Spring 2020 (as per previous TfL target), now looking like at least May

https://www.building.co.uk/news/software-glitches-continue-to-dog-crossrail/5104836.article

Spring 2020 was always going to be may due to the timetable change . Hayes and Harlington and Southall were originally supposed to be finished by December 2017.

 

[hwl]

Spring 2020 was always going to be may due to the timetable change . Hayes and Harlington and Southall were originally supposed to be finished by December 2017.

They have just shown they don't understand rail season definitions.
At least a year is quoted.

 

[Non Multi]

Thankfully, there is some good news for TfL to report:
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...w-available-at-four-western-tfl-rail-stations

TfL press release summary:
Customers using Hanwell, Iver, Langley and Taplow TfL Rail stations now benefit from step-free access from street to platform for the first time, alongside other station improvements...

 

[Grumpy Git]

Why weren't the tunnel segments designed with a series (two minimum) of inclusive pre-cast holes so a universal bracket could be used to mount from these? It really wouldn't be too difficult, unless the linings are actually cast in-situ?

 

[hwl]

Why weren't the tunnel segments designed with a series (two minimum) of inclusive pre-cast holes so a universal bracket could be used to mount from these? It really wouldn't be too difficult, unless the linings are actually cast in-situ?

That is very good question (see my comments above).

The segments were made off site at the production facility at Old Oak Common on what is now the Crossrail rolling stock depot:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...s-full-operations-creates-jobs-for-unemployed

 

[Grumpy Git]

That is very good question (see my comments above).

The segments were made off site at the production facility at Old Oak Common on what is now the Crossrail rolling stock depot:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...s-full-operations-creates-jobs-for-unemployed

Just think how much concrete they would have saved as well?