Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

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greyman42

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The situation at Farringdon is farcical given that there have been standalone validators between Thameslink and the Underground platforms for years. Why someone thought there wasn't a need for validators between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line is baffling.
I travelled from Canary Wharf to St. Pancras, changing at Farringdon without using a validator, and had no bother.
 

swt_passenger

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I travelled from Canary Wharf to St. Pancras, changing at Farringdon without using a validator, and had no bother.
The problem is only to do with transferring from one ticket type to another at Farringdon. (eg using a paper ticket to London Thameslink, then changing to PAYG). It is very unlikely to be relevant to your journey.
 

345 050

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I notice the Elizabeth line station at Paddington has no Metro newspaper stands. Is this true of other stations with standalone EL entrances?
Maybe they are trying to improve the urban realm

Tottenham Court Road Dean Street has one for Metro/ES.
TCR is an LU station. Does anyone recall which stations are LU and which are MTR?
 
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Hadders

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I travelled from Canary Wharf to St. Pancras, changing at Farringdon without using a validator, and had no bother.
There is no need to touch in or out as your journey starts and finishes on PAYG.

The problem is if you change to or from Thameslink, because they serve stations outside the PAYG area. Passengers from places like Bedford, Stevenage, Peterborough, Luton, Brighton etc who will be changing from National Rail tickets (paper of e-tickets) to PAYG need a way to touch in and out without a detour via the gateline at the ticket hall.
 

345 050

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London Underground this means that Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon, Liverpool Street and Whitechapel
I imagine all these stations will have Metro due to a contractual agreement between London Underground and Metro then.
 

317 forever

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Is there any indication of when the next phase opens? They are saying Autumn but is that 1st September or 31st November!

EDIT: So I see the central section is due to be closed on Saturday 29th October. So I guess it won't be until after this
Ironically, that was the date I had reserved to ride it.

It does seem inconsiderate of them to close the line on the last day of British Summer Time. The following weekend would still have been half term.

I could go in November but would need a hotel for the night. Not just extra expense but also not guaranteed that I can get the Friday off work.

On the plus side, I did not 100% want to ride it before Bond Street had opened. So maybe the delay will be for my own good. Having 4 months notice is much better than just a week or 2 for example.
 

matt_world2004

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The internal date for the through running is 12 September but this is an aspiration rather than set in stone
 

bicbasher

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Do the MTR managed stations on the western and eastern branches have Metro bins? London Overground stations have them.
 

SamYeager

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Since we are coming up to four weeks since the Elizabeth line opened and the discussion is more about future developments/enhancements perhaps a more appropriately named thread should be opened and this one closed?
 

J-2739

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I finally took a trip on the Elizabeth Line yesterday, and was impressed with pretty much everything: the space, the light, the speed, the efficiency, the reliability (I can definitely believe the report above that said the line was running at 98% reliability). Here are some observations:
  • All the stations were stunning in their own way, with many central stations having a similar design and layout at platform level (although I was tripped up by Tottenham Court Road!)
  • Paddington was filled with station staff that were highly alert and really did not like people loitering about. I understand its circumstances, but it wasn't too pleasant being chased up by an army of high-visers, just for sitting.
  • My favourite station was Woolwich, not only because it is filled with historical details on a modern framework, but it also opens up a part of London that I thought was was rather closed off (I mean, you had the grotty Southeastern, the DLR, and the buses, but this is a game changer, with rapid links to Heathrow and Reading to come later this year).
  • I've already been on the stunning Class 345s, but they really come into their own in the core. They accelerate and decelerate like a bullet, and run at a decent speed in the tunnels. Rather quiet, and their Air Conditioning is useful during a warm, humid day such as yesterday.
  • The way the whole system is run, it is like something I've never seen before in the United Kingdom. There seems to be a sense of control on the trains, in the stations. Everything seems to be timed to a tee (the trains always seem to pass each other at the same exact places). I can't quite explain it, I don't have the words, but I imagine you could find the same essence in the MTR system in Hong Kong. A taste of Hong Kong?
I have some other things, but don't want to write too much. One thing though, is the Elizabeth Line made the Central Line I also rode (one of my favourite lines) look a stuffy, loud, disorganised chaos.

Since we are coming up to four weeks since the Elizabeth line opened and the discussion is more about future developments/enhancements perhaps a more appropriately named thread should be opened and this one closed?
Personally, I think the construction thread should be kept open, as the project is not really finished until the Crossrail network is linked up for the public.
 

Zigzagwonderer

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I travel through paddington from West Ealing and can't really work out where the lines will merge ?

I.e where will the Elizabeth line go underground (or come out) to join the main railway line ?

The crossrail paddington terminal is on the south side of the station and the train lines from Ealing etc are on the north side of the station.

So I can't imagine the trains will emerge above ground on the south side of the lines or they would have to cross several lines of track ?

But if they come out on the north side they would have to emerge from some tunnel it seems around royal Oak but I can't see any evidence of that

There is a line that seems to go underground at platform 14 which might be it , but that would seem like the trains would almost have to double back on themselves from the crossrail paddington stop to get onto that line ?

It would make sense to somehow not have to through / via the lines into paddington mainline station as virtually every time there are minor delays due to no free platforms at paddington, so you stop at a red signal around royal Oak.

So if Elizabeth line has to go on those lines into paddington it may struggle with delays there

It would make
 

jnjkerbin

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I travel through paddington from West Ealing and can't really work out where the lines will merge ?

I.e where will the Elizabeth line go underground (or come out) to join the main railway line ?

The crossrail paddington terminal is on the south side of the station and the train lines from Ealing etc are on the north side of the station.

So I can't imagine the trains will emerge above ground on the south side of the lines or they would have to cross several lines of track ?

But if they come out on the north side they would have to emerge from some tunnel it seems around royal Oak but I can't see any evidence of that

There is a line that seems to go underground at platform 14 which might be it , but that would seem like the trains would almost have to double back on themselves from the crossrail paddington stop to get onto that line ?
This is the location of the portal on Google Maps https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B031'09.9%22N+0%C2%B011'24.5%22W/@51.519426,-0.1923197,683m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x55f87bee84ca955a!7e2!8m2!3d51.5194261!4d-0.1901313
 

Zigzagwonderer

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Jamiescott1

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Zigzagwonderer

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It would be helpful if this means the merge happens before the entrance to paddington main line (this looks like it would be ) , as often the Elizabeth trains into paddington are held at red signal around royal Oak due to no free as
platforms at paddington mainline.

Which would kind of mess up Elizabeth line scheduling !
 

stuu

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It would be helpful if this means the merge happens before the entrance to paddington main line (this looks like it would be ) , as often the Elizabeth trains into paddington are held at red signal around royal Oak due to no free as
platforms at paddington mainline.

Which would kind of mess up Elizabeth line scheduling !
The lines from the tunnel join the main line near where the Westway crosses over
 

londonteacher

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Ironically, that was the date I had reserved to ride it.

It does seem inconsiderate of them to close the line on the last day of British Summer Time. The following weekend would still have been half term.

I could go in November but would need a hotel for the night. Not just extra expense but also not guaranteed that I can get the Friday off work.

On the plus side, I did not 100% want to ride it before Bond Street had opened. So maybe the delay will be for my own good. Having 4 months notice is much better than just a week or 2 for example.
How is it inconsiderate? The last day of BST is completely irrelevant for track closures!
 

Horizon22

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In terms of operational contingency, we know that by the time full service rolls around, the full 24tph service could be reversed at Paddington via auto reverse, which should serve us well if the GWML becomes blocked.

I was wondering about the other end though - if there are issues on the GEML though. Is there enough turnback to reverse the full service using crossovers if trains destined for Shenfield cannot be sent to Shenfield? Can the full service be sent down the Abbey Wood branch and reversed at Custom House and/or Abbey Wood itself?

Not really. There’s a few turn backs in the GEML, but if there was some issue you’d probably need to reduce the service a bit. It might be on the other side some services are diverted into Liverpool St High Level instead. At 12tph on GEML it’s already very tight headways.

It would be helpful if this means the merge happens before the entrance to paddington main line (this looks like it would be ) , as often the Elizabeth trains into paddington are held at red signal around royal Oak due to no free as
platforms at paddington mainline.

Which would kind of mess up Elizabeth line scheduling !

It’s on Line 6 outside Paddington. You can see the turnback sidings just under the bridge and you often pull up alongside them, especially if waiting a platform into P11-14.

Once through running is underway, then they’ll divert off at this point, which will free up the higher platforms for GWR & HEX services to space out a bit although it’s likely some platforms won’t get much of a service. Same is true of P15-17 at Liverpool St.
 

swt_passenger

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Since we are coming up to four weeks since the Elizabeth line opened and the discussion is more about future developments/enhancements perhaps a more appropriately named thread should be opened and this one closed?
There’s already a thread about through running, but it was started in the infrastructure and stations sub-forum.
 

JaJaWa

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Do the MTR managed stations on the western and eastern branches have Metro bins? London Overground stations have them.

The Western branch stations are managed by Network Rail and operated by MTR Elizabeth line.

The stations on both Eastern branches are managed by Rail for London and operated by MTR Elizabeth line.

Bond Street to Whitechapel inclusive (curvy stations) are London Underground.

So there’s possibly a difference between all three!
 

ijmad

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It’s on Line 6 outside Paddington. You can see the turnback sidings just under the bridge and you often pull up alongside them, especially if waiting a platform into P11-14.

Is the temporary-looking building to the east of the bus garage (with the silos) a Crossrail construction thing, or is it a staff facility for train drivers or something?
 

DavyCrocket

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Is the temporary-looking building to the east of the bus garage (with the silos) a Crossrail construction thing, or is it a staff facility for train drivers or something?
It’s now a depot for Tarmac. There is even rail access.

I recall it was used during Crossrail construction for materials and spoil
 

mrmartin

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Not really. There’s a few turn backs in the GEML, but if there was some issue you’d probably need to reduce the service a bit. It might be on the other side some services are diverted into Liverpool St High Level instead. At 12tph on GEML it’s already very tight headways.



It’s on Line 6 outside Paddington. You can see the turnback sidings just under the bridge and you often pull up alongside them, especially if waiting a platform into P11-14.

Once through running is underway, then they’ll divert off at this point, which will free up the higher platforms for GWR & HEX services to space out a bit although it’s likely some platforms won’t get much of a service. Same is true of P15-17 at Liverpool St.
Isn't it 16tph on the GEML when the full service launches? 12 into the core and 4 to high level?

Btw, would it be possible in the future to run more trains into high level to increase capacity on the GEML generally? Would 12 into the core + 8 high level, or more into the core?
 

londonteacher

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While safety is of course essential, I'm surprised how interested you come across in track closures for a rail forums member and presumably travel enthusiast.
I’m confused - my point was purely that BST is irrelevant to track closures!
 

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