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Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

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Kay_M

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I cannot wait until the Stratford branch goes through the core in the autumn. It's been worth the wait
 
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Taunton

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Inevitably, after having watched it under construction throughout, I went for several intermittent rides on it yesterday, and a garnered range of opinions. Let's home in on the positives. I should have started at our local station at Canary Wharf, but did mid-morning arriving by DLR at Custom House.

The speed is most striking. Less than 15 minutes from Canary Wharf to Paddington, there's a real sensation of "are we that far along already". I think i can get to Paddington quicker now than to Tower Gateway on the DLR. It's going to make a real change to distance relationships. Roll on being able to go right through to Heathrow.

The trains themselves are impressive. Sure, they have been around for a few years now but somehow, in their home environment, they seem to just match everything else. Others commented too on the smoothness of starting and stopping, it's noticeable even compared to say the Thameslink stock. They do put the lie to the belief that it's necessary to have small windows nowadays for structural reasons.

The architectural standards are so well done, without being over the top with expensive and wasteful marble or anything like that. The curved corners (and top corners) of the underground passages will I imagine become a design icon, and the wall finishes are extremely well done and fit in well with the scale of everything, while being well away from traditional Underground tiling.

By chance, boarded my first train right next to Howard Smith, Chief Operating Officer, and thus a chat about Custom House station layout. Relayed later to Mrs T, which led to this:

"I had a chat with one of the senior management in the train".
"Before or after you had your hair cut at Canary Wharf".
"Before".
"OMG".

Some things, you see, are more important to others ... :)
 

DC1989

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Having got the new trains from the East for the past 4 years I was taken aback at how fast they were in the central section, is there any reason why the speed doesn't match on the eastern and western legs? Or will that come in the next stage?

They are no quicker than the 315's that side
 

SynthD

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Having got the new trains from the East for the past 4 years I was taken aback at how fast they were in the central section, is there any reason why the speed doesn't match on the eastern and western legs? Or will that come in the next stage?

They are no quicker than the 315's that side
Precisely that, the timetable they operate to is timed for 315s.

edit: Will they speed up ahead of combining the routes?
 

norbitonflyer

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No, but lots of dogs. It felt like Bring Your Dog to the Elizabeth Line Day
It wasn't the dogs I noticed, but the wheelchairs. Given the difficulties there have been retrofittintg accessibility to the Tube network, the new line must be a real boon for people who use them.

Taking my car to be serviced at 10am (and my reluctance to use public transport at times when my 60+ pass isn't valid!) meant I didn't get to Paddington until 11am. Still very busy then, and I gradually made my way east, stopping off at each central London station to exit by one entrance and return by the other. (The Duke Street and Barbican entrances were almost deserted) I also took a quick detour between Moorgate and Liverpool Street via Bank, to see the new works there - in a way even more impressive as they had anything but a clean sheet to start from. To sample the other stations I also used Overground/DLR between Whitechapel and Canary Wharf, and NR between Woolwich Arsenal and Abbey Wood, before returning direct to Paddington.

Interchange signage at Woolwich needs improvement - I got thoroughly lost, even though the two stations are actually in sight of each other (not helped by Woolwich Arsenal station being redeveloped at the moment).

Of course, no rail trip is complete without something going wrong, and the District Line duly delivered with complete suspension west of Earl's Court, resulting in a long walk in a thunderstorm to collect my car.
 

samulih

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There were few tweets in Twitter that noticed the many wheelchairs and good accessibility on the line.....
It wasn't the dogs I noticed, but the wheelchairs. Given the difficulties there have been retrofittintg accessibility to the Tube network
 

danielcanning

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It’s all well and good opening a shiny new line, however the rest of TfL is rapidly going to pot. For example waits of over 30 minutes are now commonplace on the Met line. I bet that when the Lizzie line opens in full the service will completely fall apart within a week, just look at what’s happening with signallers at Paddington…
 

swt_passenger

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Having got the new trains from the East for the past 4 years I was taken aback at how fast they were in the central section, is there any reason why the speed doesn't match on the eastern and western legs? Or will that come in the next stage?

They are no quicker than the 315's that side
AIUI they are significantly slower in the central section than on the surface sections. 62 mph (100 kph) max in the central section, 90 mph max on the surface. Tunnels often make trains seem faster, or maybe they just sound faster?
 

AlbertBeale

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Interchange between EL and the Central line at TCR is via the ticket hall, so it's probably quicker to walk from there, depending on your final destination. Or indeed walking to Lancaster Gate!

I think the interchange at Bond Street will be shorter so that would become the solution, one day

It seems that TCR interchanges aren't at all slick, if you need to go up to the ticket hall and down again between Crossrail and Central Line. And Crossrail to Northern requires you go to the extreme eastern end of the platform, and then some - and then zig-zag though a bit of a maze after that too. Most interesting, and perhaps counter-intuitive since people think of the new line as being very deep through central London, is that you then go down steps to the Northern.

I wonder whether X/Rail to Northern (if you're getting off the west end of the train) might even be quicker via the Central connection (given the ancient and very short link between the two tube lines there if you know the best route).

I also noted that the on-board interchange announcement when arriving at TCR just said change for "Central and Northern", without the "Lines" that is standard for announcement of interchanges between Underground lines. That feels rather wrong.

I sense that Crossrail is primarily designed as a point to point railway and the huge stations and long walks to and from the platforms are not particularly advantageous for when you need to make connections. Many people may end up sticking to the Tube from Farringdon to Paddington, for example, because the Tube is next to the Thameslink platforms.

Agreed. My brief experience of interchanges so far is that I'd much rather stick to existing Underground lines for ease / speed / lack of hassle for any X/Rail journey within central London that isn't just point-to-point using X/Rail only. Which means I don't expect to make much use of it for central/inner London journeys.

So yes, as said here, arriving on T/Link at Farringdon, to get to and from Paddington, for example, the Underground feels easier.

If I was coming from further out east or west, to get to somewhere in the centre that was off the C/Rail route, I might stick on it into the centre and then change. But even then it would depend on which underground line I wanted to end up on. I suspect that regulars will end up treating it as primarily an extension of main line trains into/through the centre, rather than making much difference to their inner London tube journeys (as is the case with T/Link),

Of course there will be a few through journeys from outside the centre at both ends - maybe Essex-HRW or Essex-Reading - just as there are Sussex-Luton and Welwyn-Gatwick through journeys or whatever.

So, all in all - useful for getting from out-of-London places into some parts of the centre; but perhaps not the best answer to the need for increased capacity on the Underground? I know people on this website love it because of loving whizzy new railways (and it'll be a bit of an attraction in general while it's new), but I suspect that the number of regular London travellers who find the central section of it makes that much difference to their lives might not be as large as the hype suggests.

Farringdon is disappointing as there were toilets there before the work started.

I think I saw a toilet sign near the south end of the N/bound T/Link platform last night, near where the lift to X/Rail is. But I might be misremembering

(If you don't use the lift, are you supposed to go out of a gateline and across the road and in again to get from T/Link to X/Rail??)
 
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kristiang85

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The speed is most striking. Less than 15 minutes from Canary Wharf to Paddington, there's a real sensation of "are we that far along already". I think i can get to Paddington quicker now than to Tower Gateway on the DLR. It's going to make a real change to distance relationships. Roll on being able to go right through to Heathrow.

It's interesting to think about this. Those who are used to just tubing around London all the time can end up being quite surprised at how close many places are - the tube does feel quite fast when you're on it, due to the close proximity of the walls and the noises. But actually it is fairly 'slow' in the grand scheme of themes.

Presumably the Elizabeth Line runs at more normal train speeds, so I think it will be quite a common theme that people will be surprised at how quickly it gets from A to B.

I can't wait to do my first proper wander on it tomorrow evening!
 

swt_passenger

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(If you don't use the lift, are you supposed to go out of a gateline and across the road and in again to get from T/Link to X/Rail??)
No, you can go up from the southbound T/L and over the tracks and down past the northbound T/L all within the gateline. (Within he south side entrance and ticket hall.)
 

AlbertBeale

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(If you don't use the lift, are you supposed to go out of a gateline and across the road and in again to get from T/Link to X/Rail??)

No, you can go up from the southbound T/L and over the tracks and down past the northbound T/L all within the gateline. (Within he south side entrance and ticket hall.)

Thanks - I didn't spot that - I must have a wander round when I'm next at Farringdon. Maybe the signage isn't as clear as it might be - or maybe I just wasn't stopping to read all the signs properly, given that (as a local) I don't tend to do so for journeys in central London, being in the habit of "following my nose" fairly instinctively.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Live Departure Boards seem to be struggling with the Elizabeth Line. You can easily get departures from any Elizabeth Line station that is not served by any other national rail or Overground trains - such as Canary Wharf: https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/CWX. But if you try a national-rail interchange station, you're out of luck: Places like Abbey Wood, Paddington, and even Whitechapel only show the non-Elizabeth-line-central-section trains.
 

swt_passenger

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Thanks - I didn't spot that - I must have a wander round when I'm next at Farringdon. Maybe the signage isn't as clear as it might be - or maybe I just wasn't stopping to read all the signs properly, given that (as a local) I don't tend to do so for journeys in central London, being in the habit of "following my nose" fairly instinctively.
I since found a decent cutaway drawing of the Thameslink/Crossrail shared ticket hall, it’s from a few years ago, but I think it’s still correct: https://www.networkrailmediacentre....pital-as-new-farringdon-station-gets-go-ahead
 

johncrossley

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Thanks - I didn't spot that - I must have a wander round when I'm next at Farringdon. Maybe the signage isn't as clear as it might be - or maybe I just wasn't stopping to read all the signs properly, given that (as a local) I don't tend to do so for journeys in central London, being in the habit of "following my nose" fairly instinctively.

At Farringdon it is actually best to ignore the signs!
 

306024

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Precisely that, the timetable they operate to is timed for 315s.

edit: Will they speed up ahead of combining the routes?

Err no, they are not on 315 timings any more, haven't been since May 21 from memory. 345s can easily do 70mph on the electric lines between Liverpool St and Shenfield (maximum line speed), so long as one of the frequent station stops doesn't spoil the fun.
 

stuu

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It seems that TCR interchanges aren't at all slick, if you need to go up to the ticket hall and down again between Crossrail and Central Line. And Crossrail to Northern requires you go to the extreme eastern end of the platform, and then some - and then zig-zag though a bit of a maze after that too. Most interesting, and perhaps counter-intuitive since people think of the new line as being very deep through central London, is that you then go down steps to the Northern.

I wonder whether X/Rail to Northern (if you're getting off the west end of the train) might even be quicker via the Central connection (given the ancient and very short link between the two tube lines there if you know the best route).
I think you mean the other way round - via the Northern line to the Central line? That would be quicker but they couldn't sign that as an interchange route as it would be too busy. There was originally a planned link to the Dean Street end from the Central line which would have made connections a bit better but that was scrapped
So, all in all - useful for getting from out-of-London places into some parts of the centre; but perhaps not the best answer to the need for increased capacity on the Underground? I know people on this website love it because of loving whizzy new railways (and it'll be a bit of an attraction in general while it's new), but I suspect that the number of regular London travellers who find the central section of it makes that much difference to their lives might not be as large as the hype suggests.
It will remove a lot of people from the Jubilee and Central lines, once it is fully open - changing at Stratford from the Central line will be quick and easy, obviously depending on your final destination. So it helps people in central London by creating more space on existing lines.
 

mrmartin

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Real shame that 4G couldn't be provided, hope it won't be a huge wait to fix it. Also felt like spotty WiFi in the stations too but I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention so could have got that wrong. Is there any indication of when 4G will be provided in the tunnels?

Liverpool street entrance near central line did feel bizarrely claustrophobic given how massive all the rest of the station is. I was also on it with one of the escalators out of service and it was really backing up. I imagine with time the other entrance will get used more which may shift the load but given loadings I imagine are still down a bit on what they could be I can see that becoming a real pinch point.
 

AM9

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Thanks - I didn't spot that - I must have a wander round when I'm next at Farringdon. Maybe the signage isn't as clear as it might be - or maybe I just wasn't stopping to read all the signs properly, given that (as a local) I don't tend to do so for journeys in central London, being in the habit of "following my nose" fairly instinctively.
Went to try the Lizzie out today, and specifically to check a TL southbound to Lizzie westbound interchange for when we'll be carrying luggage in June. The result, - it took less than 2 1/2 minutes from the doors of the TL train to the platform edge doors on the Lizzie WB. The route, use the lifts at the southern end of the TL SB platform, go to level -6 then out through the transverse passage to the front of the lizzie WB platform. Coming back later, (from the WM Lizzie but would have worked just as easy from the EB) had to go up to the gateline floor, cross the TL tracks below then down onto P4 TL rear, - right place for the decalssified 1st class. :) Time nearer 4 mins.
 

Watershed

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It seems that TCR interchanges aren't at all slick, if you need to go up to the ticket hall and down again between Crossrail and Central Line. And Crossrail to Northern requires you go to the extreme eastern end of the platform, and then some - and then zig-zag though a bit of a maze after that too. Most interesting, and perhaps counter-intuitive since people think of the new line as being very deep through central London, is that you then go down steps to the Northern.

I wonder whether X/Rail to Northern (if you're getting off the west end of the train) might even be quicker via the Central connection (given the ancient and very short link between the two tube lines there if you know the best route).
The interchange from XR-Northern is OK provided you position yourself correctly (at the eastern end of the train) and use the unsigned staircase directly down onto the northern end of the Northern line platform. Took me only 2 minutes or so from train to train.
 

AM9

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The interchange from XR-Northern is OK provided you position yourself correctly (at the eastern end of the train) and use the unsigned staircase directly down onto the northern end of the Northern line platform. Took me only 2 minutes or so from train to train.
That remionds me of the short dodge against the direction signs to get onto the Central eastbound platform without traipsing halfway down the passage between the two platforms. Ooops, I'm going back to the '60s there.
 

quantinghome

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I sense that Crossrail is primarily designed as a point to point railway and the huge stations and long walks to and from the platforms are not particularly advantageous for when you need to make connections. Many people may end up sticking to the Tube from Farringdon to Paddington, for example, because the Tube is next to the Thameslink platforms.
I can't find the article I read a few years back which made exactly this point.

The essential point was they wanted to avoid overloading the north-south lines connecting with Crossrail so designed the stations to encourage people to walk the last few hundred yards rather than interchange. Not sure I agree with the idea but that's what I read.
 

VauxhallandI

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My first exposure to the EL was yesterday morning when my train pulled into Liverpool St and the PA system on the train announced that I could connect with it.

Went on it later in the day 17:07, Liverpool St to Paddington and then straight back. Loved it but those dwell times are painful, it feels like one is losing the advantage of using it.

Onwards to the real opening whenever that may be.
 

AlbertBeale

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I think you mean the other way round - via the Northern line to the Central line? That would be quicker but they couldn't sign that as an interchange route as it would be too busy. There was originally a planned link to the Dean Street end from the Central line which would have made connections a bit better but that was scrapped

Though going via the Northern to the Central would mean walking the length of the Northern platform...

It will remove a lot of people from the Jubilee and Central lines, once it is fully open - changing at Stratford from the Central line will be quick and easy, obviously depending on your final destination. So it helps people in central London by creating more space on existing lines.

Yes - I can see that where there's an easy interchange from a tube onto Crossrail in outer London (like Stratford - but maybe nowhere else?), then if you want a destination actually served by X/Rail it could make sense, even if it means a change you wouldn't have otherwise needed. But given the much slower interchanges to/from the new line compared to many, at least, existing Underground interchanges, I'd personally need to have a pretty overcrowded journey before I'd think it worthwhile making more changes than I otherwise would, even if it saved a few minutes overall, if those extra interchanges were at a central area X/Rail station.

The interchange from XR-Northern is OK provided you position yourself correctly (at the eastern end of the train) and use the unsigned staircase directly down onto the northern end of the Northern line platform. Took me only 2 minutes or so from train to train.

Aha - another unsigned staircase to add to tocal Londoners' special knowledge which allows us to chuckle at tourists... If you follow the signs, you get to the southern end of the Northern platforms. If there's such a useful short-cut, then I now understand the comment from stuu about getting to the Central via the Northern. I'll check it out!

That remionds me of the short dodge against the direction signs to get onto the Central eastbound platform without traipsing halfway down the passage between the two platforms. Ooops, I'm going back to the '60s there.

I think that still is the quickest way from the Northern to the Central. Short stairs and short escalator from the northern end of the platform, across the flow of people, and down a handful of steps onto the end of the eastbound Central. (And a few yards along the platform there's access to the westbound too.)
 

swt_passenger

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I can't find the article I read a few years back which made exactly this point.

The essential point was they wanted to avoid overloading the north-south lines connecting with Crossrail so designed the stations to encourage people to walk the last few hundred yards rather than interchange. Not sure I agree with the idea but that's what I read.
Isn’t that also one of the reasons they swerved Oxford Circus, because interchange or additional entry/exits there would have overwhelmed the existing station. So the idea is that if you want that area you actually use the Hanover Square exit and walk a block or two.

I think some years ago there was some debate in these forums about whether to somehow include Hanover Square and Dean St on the tube map, as they’re effectively intermediate stations that should reduce users of Oxford St. But it seems there’s to be no guidance on the ‘tube map’, so will that risk people changing from Elizabeth Line to Central Line unnecessarily?
 

Acton1991

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At Tottenham Court Road right now and the platform screens aren’t working, so no idea when the next services are etc - not great!
 

AM9

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At Tottenham Court Road right now and the platform screens aren’t working, so no idea when the next services are etc - not great!
Well, every train eastbound is for Abbey Wood and every train westbound is non-stop to Paddington. If you've just missed one then the maximum wait is 5 minutes.
 
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