crossrail seating

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ess

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what will it be? 2+2, 2+3 or something else?
is it true there won't be toilets on crossrail trains?
 
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TheJRB

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I'd be surprised if there's any traverse seating, based on what was ordered with the 378s. That said, the S8 stock has a mixture so it's very difficult to tell. It's probably one of those things we're just going to have to wait to find out about.

I'm not saying that's the best/right thing to do, but Crossrail is a "metro" service and with the busy inner city places it serves (i.e. TCR, Bond Street etc.), absolutely requires the greatest standing room possible based on the usage of the Central line.
 

DownSouth

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A mixture of 2+2 between the two sets of doors and longitudinal between the vehicle end and the door would be best. This would allow for the best combination of peak capacity, ease of movement and a keeping the amount of space taken up by seats reasonable.
 

Robbies

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I would imagine the Crossrail trains will be exactly like the class 378's with either a styled nose at the front or such that they can be Gangwayed between units when they are attached together when they are running as ten car trains.

The reason I think that the trains will be like 378's is that makes them more in line with the disability act such that wheelchair users can get on the trains with ease.
 

Robbies

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So no other train in the UK is suitable.....?
I am not saying that no other train is suitable, I am just using class 378 as an example where the seats are at the sides with plenty of room for standing and which also gives good disability access both now and for the future.
 

WestCoast

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Whenever I imagine Crossrail, a modified HEX 332 with more suitable seating pops into my head with a very fancy interior, no idea why as TfL wouldn't never go for such a plush interior!
 

Robbies

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The South African Gautrain Electrostar comes to my mind when I see the drawings on the Crossrail website of train design but I guess that is just coincidence??
 

jopsuk

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Coincidence. The graphic designers will have no part in choosing the trains. There was a Blackfriars artists impression that had a hover-HST.
 

Class377/5

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I would imagine the Crossrail trains will be exactly like the class 378's with either a styled nose at the front or such that they can be Gangwayed between units when they are attached together when they are running as ten car trains.

The reason I think that the trains will be like 378's is that makes them more in line with the disability act such that wheelchair users can get on the trains with ease.
They won't have end gangways. They will be fixed formationed 10 car units (with ability to go to 12 car built in). Another reason why the Thameslink and Crossrail units are generally silmar in requirements.

Coincidence. The graphic designers will have no part in choosing the trains. There was a Blackfriars artists impression that had a hover-HST.
They had images of the new Blackfriars with HST, slammers and SWT 455 in the station. Farringdon has an NR advert about TLP with Voyagers all over it!
 
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swt_passenger

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There was an extremely long post I came up with on it before, basically came up with a 10 car formation with an avarage of 40 seats per carriage.
They've actually stated 450 seats in the 10 car train, so 45 on average. I think that's marginally too many for 378 style longitudinal seating throughout as Robbies suggests. I'd expect mainly 2+2 but with plenty of standing areas near the doors, and a few general purpose areas for wheelchairs and prams etc.

Also, I wonder if Crossrail will allow bikes in the central tunnelled section?
 

Class377/5

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They've actually stated 450 seats in the 10 car train, so 45 on average. I think that's marginally too many for 378 style longitudinal seating throughout as Robbies suggests. I'd expect mainly 2+2 but with plenty of standing areas near the doors, and a few general purpose areas for wheelchairs and prams etc.

Also, I wonder if Crossrail will allow bikes in the central tunnelled section?
Just looking at seating numbers you get

350/1 - 60/59/24/60
376/0 - 36/48/48/48/36
375/6 - 60/56/66/60
377/1 - 60/60/56/60
378/2 - 36/40/34/36

Looks like a repeat of the 376 is about right.

Bikes will be banned from Central London just like the Tube and DLR.
 

Nym

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I came up with basically having half and half of each seating type with a modular layout and disabled seating toward the centre and cycle space towards the ends, so that even in reverse formation it comes out correct. If you do a search of my posts, it's about 500 posts back I think...
 

Minstral25

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They won't have end gangways. They will be fixed formationed 10 car units (with ability to go to 12 car built in). Another reason why the Thameslink and Crossrail units are generally silmar in requirements.
Hopefully you are incorrect but the planners at the DfT will probably go with that.

Crossrail is a short distance High Capacity Metro Service in London. Thameslink is long distance outer-suburban trains that happen to go through central London and hence seating requirement is completely different.

Sitting on Longitudinal or narrow seats for a hour long journey from Brighton or Peterborough to London on Thameslink would be completely wrong.

Crossrail being a metro service is another reason not to extend beyond Maidenhead or up to Milton Keynes as many have suggested because this will result in the wrong type of stock being used on outer suburban services. Extra services to Heathrow and other "inner" destinations is more sense.
 

Class377/5

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Hopefully you are incorrect but the planners at the DfT will probably go with that.

Crossrail is a short distance High Capacity Metro Service in London. Thameslink is long distance outer-suburban trains that happen to go through central London and hence seating requirement is completely different.

Sitting on Longitudinal or narrow seats for a hour long journey from Brighton or Peterborough to London on Thameslink would be completely wrong.

Crossrail being a metro service is another reason not to extend beyond Maidenhead or up to Milton Keynes as many have suggested because this will result in the wrong type of stock being used on outer suburban services. Extra services to Heathrow and other "inner" destinations is more sense.
You mis-understand what I meant, Crossrail will take some hints from Thameslink, not the other way around.

I can say for sure that Thameslink won't have longitudinal seating for sure. As for narrow seats, well that's abstract as what's narrow? Or do you mean 3+2? Think the final seating won't be minded by most on here.

Personally I don't agree with this desire for metro seating on Crossrail. I can't see why an version of 2+2 with larger stand back areas wouldn't work great. After all the Thameslink stock is design to let people on/off upto 1,000 people with 45 seconds of the doors being open. Crossrail is very similar in need to this. Considering the complaints with the S stock having part longitudinal, I don't see it being popluar with people travelling from the outer edges.

I came up with basically having half and half of each seating type with a modular layout and disabled seating toward the centre and cycle space towards the ends, so that even in reverse formation it comes out correct. If you do a search of my posts, it's about 500 posts back I think...
My post was trying to firm up what you put. It seems about right.
 
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swt_passenger

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Hopefully you are incorrect but the planners at the DfT will probably go with that.

Crossrail is a short distance High Capacity Metro Service in London. Thameslink is long distance outer-suburban trains that happen to go through central London and hence seating requirement is completely different.

Sitting on Longitudinal or narrow seats for a hour long journey from Brighton or Peterborough to London on Thameslink would be completely wrong.
However Thameslink's ITT already calls for mostly 2+2 seating, but with three train variants to cope with different journey types - eg the 8 car inner variant doesn't have first class.

I think the earlier point being made about similar requirements was more to do with the trains being fixed formation and not needing end gangways - that aspect alone is definitely 'like Thameslink'.
 

Minstral25

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You mis-understand what I meant, Crossrail will take some hints from Thameslink, not the other way around.

I can say for sure that Thameslink won't have longitudinal seating for sure. As for narrow seats, well that's abstract as what's narrow? Or do you mean 3+2? Think the final seating won't be minded by most on here.

Personally I don't agree with this desire for metro seating on Crossrail. I can't see why an version of 2+2 with larger stand back areas wouldn't work great. After all the Thameslink stock is design to let people on/off upto 1,000 people with 45 seconds of the doors being open. Crossrail is very similar in need to this. Considering the complaints with the S stock having part longitudinal, I don't see it being popluar with people travelling from the outer edges.



My post was trying to firm up what you put. It seems about right.
I agree with you on Crossrail seats - 2+2 with large stand backs will be fine.

I am concerned about Thameslink stock seating (probably because hopefully I will be using them daily) as I expect they will put in 2+2 to appease everyone but they will be the "wide" aisle type which are essentially 3+2 seats with the third seat taken out (FCC Class 319's for example). These are as uncomfortable as any 3+2 and still keep all the faults except the middle seat.

People are on average bigger and squeezing into tiny seats is hard - the 319's are universally hated by longer distance outer suburban travellers in a similar way to the new S stock at the route extremities due to bad narrow seats. Hopefully the DfT will update their size charts soon and provide seats that 90% of passengers can sit on.
 
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