Crosville Motor Services - Weston-Super-Mare Cutting Routes

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by Dhassell, 2 Mar 2017.

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  1. Dhassell

    Dhassell Member

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    Quoted from Weston Mercury
    Seems like another case of local bus firm being knocked down by a big private firm!
    Quite a shock for me! The 103 was always a busy route! I can understand why the route 107 has to go, It was a clear copy of first 7 route!
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2017
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  3. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Hardly a private firm, but a public company trading internationally.
     
  4. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Not really - the main routes 103/105/107 were introduced against existing First services. The 107 being introduced only a few months ago with new vehicles.
     
  5. 185

    185 Established Member

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    trading badly ahem

    Glad I bailed out of FG shares at £6 a share instead of the currect £1 :P
     
  6. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I hadn't realised they were doing that badly.
     
  7. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    £6 was just after they bought Laidlaw and just before Lehmann Bros went pop. A lot has happened since then (2008)

    They're now at £1.20
     
  8. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Even in that context, not great!
     
  9. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    No but their travails are well documented. Still, Moir got a knighthood out of it
     
  10. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Well, that's alright then.:lol: Pity no newspapers ever gave him the Philip Green treatment (the recent one, rather than the brown nose job).
     
  11. the101

    the101 Member

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    I am sure that relations are not too rocky between Jones-Pratt's outfit and First, given that between them they have placed an order for about 160 Yutong coaches for the Somerset Passenger Solutions JV job at Hinckley Point. Bigger fish to fry and all that.
     
  12. richw

    richw Established Member

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    First in WSM are advertising on Facebook they require 30+ new drivers. A clear consequence of crosville retracting
     
  13. Dhassell

    Dhassell Member

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    This may be because of a new tender with Bristol Airport to run an hourly express route to the airport, as well and the new route 5 and the X7 and also extending the 3 to West Wick.
     
  14. Marc

    Marc Member

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    i wont shed too many tears over crosville withdrawing from their competitive routes. crosville have been the agressors --both in terms of fares and service development-- on the weston town services and 107 has been very poor in terms of passenger take up. their fleet of primos has obviously been expensive to maintain and the new rental buses were never going to be sustainable.

    it seams that weston is a magnet for operators that pop up-run for a while-promise the world then disappear again. acl... in one spin... crosville... the one constant always there is badgerline/first etc.
     
  15. Dhassell

    Dhassell Member

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    One route that came as a shock to me was the 103! Both 3 & 103 are always almost full and I expect there will be more buses on the 3 skipping passengers because they are full!
     
  16. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Remember that the 3 and X7 will operate every 15 mins from West Wick to Weston
     
  17. Dhassell

    Dhassell Member

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    Oh, In a way that's good news then! The 3 is having its frequency boosted?
     
  18. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Not certain how they'll operate
     
  19. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    No. It's down to X6/7/9 moving to Weston as Bristol are so short. First have registered the 5 before Crosville announced their plans. The 3 has some changes, but that's about it. Weston also will have Weston Flyer.
     
  20. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Crosville were doing quite well on 103, but 107 was a waste of time. Pratt just wanted more drivers for Hinkley.
     
  21. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Crosville hasn't disappeared. He started on so many routes for the same reason as Webberbus - Hinkley. The more routes in the area, the better the chance of getting drivers and the tenders. Difference between the two though is that Pratt knows how to manage his finances - even if that means he has quite extensive creditors.
     
  22. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Webberbus did not get into bus services because of HP3.

    Webber was a long standing coach operator, working standard stuff like college and schools work. They then moved into bus operation with the Bridgwater to Langport service in c.2005 - before outline go ahead was given. Then they decided to expand and won the Taunton P&R and then compete with an ailing First on their best corridors (Taunton to Wellington, Bridgwater, Minehead) before the 2012 dossier that suggested that First were looking to dispose of Somerset ops. So they decided that they would gamble on the 37/38 in an attempt to force First out; the rest we all know!

    Crosville probably spotted the same weakness with First in the past. A lack of investment, constantly retrenchment etc and so with a base of tendered and coaching work, they could introduce some competitive services. Much like WB or Faresaver or countless other examples across the country. The only curious aspect is why he decided to introduce the 107 anyway (though it is obviously the best of the Weston local services) if he wasn't able to see it through long term.

    As for Mr Pratt's creditors, I don't know how good his financial standing is at the moment. However, he may well have taken the very sensible view that he can a) try to battle with a company and not win or b) make a decent living on the SPS work instead.
     
  23. Marc

    Marc Member

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    i think we may now know the reason for the suddan change in crosvilles attitude.

    from the latest notices and processings:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...nt_data/file/597947/np-2585-09-march-2017.pdf

    Section 5.1
    – Notice of Public Inquiries to be Held
    Public Inquiry (74361) to be held at Jubilee House (Bristol), BS5 0GB, Croydon Street, Bristol, on 28 March 2017 commencing at 13:00
    PH1107086 SI
    CROSVILLE MOTOR SERVICES LTD
    Director(s): JONATHAN JONES-PRATT, RAYMOND LUNNEY
    UNIT 2, WESTLAND DISTRIBUTION PARK, WESTON-SUPER-MARE, BS24 9AB
    S17 -Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 (The Public Passenger
    Vehicles Act 1981)
    S26 -Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 26 (The Transport Act 1985)
    S28 -Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 28
    (The Transport Act 1985)
     
  24. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Indeed - a potential curtailment of his O license.
     
  25. Dhassell

    Dhassell Member

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    You able to clear up in Normal terms what this means?
     
  26. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Potential revocation or curtailment of operators license for either maintenance or failure to operate scheduled services
     
  27. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    IF it's the latter (and I have no idea if it is) then the Traffic Commissioners for the area have recent previous in putting a generally well-regarded independent operator out of business for a situation that may not be of their own making, while seemingly ignoring similar behaviour by a competing, but larger, incumbent operator.
     
  28. the101

    the101 Member

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    Traffic Commissioners do not put operators out of business willy-nilly. Those that are revoked invariably deserve it, and if the revocation is considered unjust then there is always the option of going to the (independent) Upper Tribunal on appeal. Given that the UT overturns a small proportion of revocations, it is logical to conclude that TCs' action is rarely (if ever) excessive.

    I imagine that Jones-Pratt will hire one of the Backhouse Jones mob to represent him and come away with a slapped wrist if it's his first time in such a situation.
     
  29. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I think your statement that ' those that are revoked INVARIABLY deserve it' betrays an uncritical mindset. In any case, if an operator is in trouble for failing to run scheduled services, or late running or a combination of the two, in an area like what I shall call Avon, then how come the large operators, with one dominating the area like no other, are not brought to book too, because their services can no more avoid the traffic chaos than the chastised small bus company?
     
  30. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    First has been up before the TA on several occasions over the last few years for late running, it could be said that it's the smaller operators that have avoided this up to now.
     
  31. richw

    richw Established Member

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    S17 is finance and repute,
    S26 is failure to operate registered services
    S28 is the section that gives the TC the right to revoke, suspend or disqualify for breach of any of the other sections,
     
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