Croydon, Timetable Booklet dated 20 July 1960. London Transport & Green Line

[Mike99]

Evening, I was just whiling away a bit of time this afternoon re-reading a London Transport Publication, dated 20th July 1960, a local timetable booklet covering Croydon, Purley, Caterham and District. (Priced at 1/-).
So I'm posting, just to lighten the load in these difficult times and not as a definitive authority.
I realised browsing through, that on a Sunday from the South Croydon to West Croydon corridor and West Croydon Bus Station it was possible to travel far and wide.
The following Red Routes reached, Shepherds Bush Green with Route 12, Route 57A to Camden Town, Route 59A to West Hampstead, Route 68 to Chalk Farm Station, Route 109 to Embankment, Route 133 to Hendon Central Station and Route 220 to Harrow Road. (Also the 40 went from Norwood Junction to Wanstead). It was also possible to reach Plumstead(54), Wimbledon Stadium(64), Woolwich (54 and 75), Bromley (119), New Addington (130/130A), Crystal Palace, Sutton & Raynes Park (154/157), & Caterham Valley (197).
On the Green and Green Line side some serious distance could be covered, the 403 reached Tonbridge, 405/414 reached Horsham, 408/470 reached Guildford & Dorking and the 409 reached Forest Row.
On the Green Line side the 706/707 pairing served Oxted/Westerham & Aylesbury, the 708 ran from East Grinstead through to Hemel Hempstead, the 709/710 linked Godstone/Crawley and Chesham and finally the 725 linked Gravesend with Windsor.
There are probably many other examples from other locations but I thought this to be quite an impressive array of destinations.

 

[Busaholic]

Evening, I was just whiling away a bit of time this afternoon re-reading a London Transport Publication, dated 20th July 1960, a local timetable booklet covering Croydon, Purley, Caterham and District. (Priced at 1/-).
So I'm posting, just to lighten the load in these difficult times and not as a definitive authority.
I realised browsing through, that on a Sunday from the South Croydon to West Croydon corridor and West Croydon Bus Station it was possible to travel far and wide.
The following Red Routes reached, Shepherds Bush Green with Route 12, Route 57A to Camden Town, Route 59A to West Hampstead, Route 68 to Chalk Farm Station, Route 109 to Embankment, Route 133 to Hendon Central Station and Route 220 to Harrow Road. (Also the 40 went from Norwood Junction to Wanstead). It was also possible to reach Plumstead(54), Wimbledon Stadium(64), Woolwich (54 and 75), Bromley (119), New Addington (130/130A), Crystal Palace, Sutton & Raynes Park (154/157), & Caterham Valley (197).
On the Green and Green Line side some serious distance could be covered, the 403 reached Tonbridge, 405/414 reached Horsham, 408/470 reached Guildford & Dorking and the 409 reached Forest Row.
On the Green Line side the 706/707 pairing served Oxted/Westerham & Aylesbury, the 708 ran from East Grinstead through to Hemel Hempstead, the 709/710 linked Godstone/Crawley and Chesham and finally the 725 linked Gravesend with Windsor.
There are probably many other examples from other locations but I thought this to be quite an impressive array of destinations.

I did that 133 journey from South Croydon Garage to Hendon Central Station once (I wouldn't have done it again for all the tea in China: my buttocks retain the folk memory) also the 68 to Chalk Farm on a Croydon garage RML. Oh, and the 220, but even better was the 630 trolleybus, the longest London trolley route and every single vehicle allocated to Hammersmith depot. In some of my dreams, these sort of journeys are replicated, but the 75 gets miraculously extended to Kingston, quite some distance from Woolwich!

 

[Roger1973]

Hard to think of many places that could match that. Would need to be somewhere on the red / green bus networks. Kingston had some links to central London (14 at certain times of days / week) and Hampton Court had a lot of routes extended at summer weekends.

There were some quite long country bus routes from the Bexleyheath / Dartford patch, but (other than comparatively recent night buses) never had links to central London.

Slough might be a possible, and also had Thames Valley buses / limited stop services.

Technically, not sure how many 12s got from Croydon to Shepherds Bush or beyond - think it was the case post-war that 12s from Croydon didn't run further north of Oxford Circus, although the sections the route operated over did vary over the years, and also at different times of day / week - I'm aware that at one time 12's through Forest Hill on a Saturday didn't go north of the Elephant, and to get to the west end you had to catch a 12 and change to a 12 somewhere north of Peckham. A lot of this sort of thing was based on what journey (or round trip) length made crew duties work, and not sure it entirely helped the travelling public.

Not sure if you have met the London Bus Route Histories website - route 12 here. (the site is still a work in progress, but fairly comprehensive.)

Another aside on the 12, I understand it was the last London route that had to be scheduled on paper, as the initial computer system couldn't cope with a route with that many garages involved.

even better was the 630 trolleybus, the longest London trolley route and every single vehicle allocated to Hammersmith depot.

except on Christmas Day for some reason to do with scheduling, when Sutton (Carshalton) had a few vehicles allocated - even after the 654 became the 154 in 1959. Apparently the blinds were printed showing 630, but they got amended before it ran. Picture here

 

[Busaholic]

Hard to think of many places that could match that. Would need to be somewhere on the red / green bus networks. Kingston had some links to central London (14 at certain times of days / week) and Hampton Court had a lot of routes extended at summer weekends.

There were some quite long country bus routes from the Bexleyheath / Dartford patch, but (other than comparatively recent night buses) never had links to central London.

Slough might be a possible, and also had Thames Valley buses / limited stop services.

Technically, not sure how many 12s got from Croydon to Shepherds Bush or beyond - think it was the case post-war that 12s from Croydon didn't run further north of Oxford Circus, although the sections the route operated over did vary over the years, and also at different times of day / week - I'm aware that at one time 12's through Forest Hill on a Saturday didn't go north of the Elephant, and to get to the west end you had to catch a 12 and change to a 12 somewhere north of Peckham. A lot of this sort of thing was based on what journey (or round trip) length made crew duties work, and not sure it entirely helped the travelling public.

Not sure if you have met the London Bus Route Histories website - route 12 here. (the site is still a work in progress, but fairly comprehensive.)

Another aside on the 12, I understand it was the last London route that had to be scheduled on paper, as the initial computer system couldn't cope with a route with that many garages involved.



except on Christmas Day for some reason to do with scheduling, when Sutton (Carshalton) had a few vehicles allocated - even after the 654 became the 154 in 1959. Apparently the blinds were printed showing 630, but they got amended before it ran. Picture here

True that buses from Croydon on the 12 didn't get further than Oxford Circus during most of the post-war period, but you could get occasional M-F journeys from Anerley to Harlesden and Park Royal that had come out of Elmers End Garage, and possibly the odd one or two that originated at Norwood Junction, though I don't have the details to hand. Yes, the 12 was the ostensible reason that bus scheduling couldn't be brought into the computer age, but I wouldn't say it was the only reason (or excuse!) by any means. People's jobs were at stake, big time!

The Carshalton allocation on Christmas Day on the 630 was a scheduling quirk, but they only worked a 'shuttle' service West Croydon to Mitcham, Fair Green, where I believe a connection was made to the main 630, although again I don't have details to hand. The straight shift nature of Xmas Day working would have brought this about from the Hammersmith allocation point of view. Did the Carshalton trolleys then go onto the 654 at Croydon? It's feasible, I believe, although I've no evidence it actually happened, just a circumstantial detail or two leads to the intriguing possibility.

Waltham Cross, just in Hertfordshire, post trolleybus conversion saw some theoretical new connections to Central London to add to the trolleybus ones, although 127s from Victoria never got further north than Edmonton, and 149s from Victoria only to Stamford Hill. Croydon holds the crown, undoubtedly.

 

[Mike99]

From my 1964 Timetable book, the first 12 on a Sunday from South Croydon Garage through to Shepherds Bush was 08:53 (earlier departures from 07:37 as far as Oxford Circus) arriving Shepherds Bush 10:39.
The last departure from Shepherds Bush was at 21:47 arriving South Croydon Garage at 23:33, with later departures until 22:47 as far as Elmers End Garage.
The scheduled frequencies during the day and up to mid evening were South Croydon to Oxford Circus every 7/8 minutes alternate services extending through to Shepherds Bush.
Elmers End Garage had the full Sunday allocation requiring 31 RT's at this time.
A, ED/Anerley, South Croydon Garage, Shepherds Bush Green, Anerley round trip was scheduled for around 4 hours and a few minutes.

 

[Roger1973]

From my 1964 Timetable book, the first 12 on a Sunday from South Croydon Garage through to Shepherds Bush was 08:53 (earlier departures from 07:37 as far as Oxford Circus) arriving Shepherds Bush 10:39.
The last departure from Shepherds Bush was at 21:47 arriving South Croydon Garage at 23:33, with later departures until 22:47 as far as Elmers End Garage.
The scheduled frequencies during the day and up to mid evening were South Croydon to Oxford Circus every 7/8 minutes alternate services extending through to Shepherds Bush.
Elmers End Garage had the full Sunday allocation requiring 31 RT's at this time.
A, ED/Anerley, South Croydon Garage, Shepherds Bush Green, Anerley round trip was scheduled for around 4 hours and a few minutes.

I've found a 1966 timetable which is similar (2153 from Shepherds Bush to South Croydon, arrive 2340, bus then forms 2348 to Anerley then in to Elmers End Garage) - the weekday service appears to have run in sections.

I think what I was vaguely remembering is that Croydon Garage buses / crews didn't work beyond Oxford Circus, as two round trips from Croydon to Shepherds Bush would have made for too long a duty (I think they would have been on 6 day week, 7 and a bit hour day duties at that time - or maybe the 11 day working fortnight applied by then.)

Long routes operated from a garage at (or just beyond) one end of the route can be awkward to make sensible duties out of.