Croydon Tramlink

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Clip, 3 Nov 2016.

  1. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    I really couldnt find another thread on this so I guess make a main one.

    However was down there today for a bit of a bash on them and noticed 2565 was in test mode with signs up saying it still belonged to the makers and not to board(obviously some still tried to lol) and at East Croydon he was checking its clearance to the platform.

    Main thing I wanted to know is that this looked brand spankers but I thought they already had their new fleet delivered?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,946
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
  4. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Ahh thanks for the info. was very shiny
     
  5. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Out of interest

    why have they still not enabled the TVMs to top up your oyster

    and is the fencing as you enter Elmers End there because you are entering NR property/
     
  6. paddington

    paddington Member

    Messages:
    719
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2013
    I don't know but I still see people buying tickets

    Others just board the tram and hope for the best when their Oyster double-beeps
     
  7. snowball

    snowball Established Member

    Messages:
    4,707
    Joined:
    4 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Leeds
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40252492

     
  8. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

    Messages:
    2,839
    Joined:
    15 Nov 2011
    Location:
    London
    My money is on a balise-based Seltrac derivative.
     
  9. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,429
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    I'd expect something GPS-based with no on-track equipment. About 1% of the price, useable on streets as well, lower safety integrity but it only needs to intervene on the very rare occasions when there is a dangerous overspeed.
     
  10. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,094
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    The tram driver involved in the crash was arrested and later granted police bail 'until May 2017'. As that time has passed, can one take it police bail has been further extended?
     
  11. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    9,136
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    Alfred Dorris was rebailed until September, I guess they are waiting on the final RAIB report.
     
  12. nidave

    nidave Member

    Messages:
    708
    Joined:
    12 Jul 2011
    From Skyscraper City (which is relevant)

     
    Last edited: 14 Jun 2017
  13. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,429
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    The overturning speed is a lot higher than the posted speed restriction, so if a protection device is only to guard against overturning it doesn't need a huge degree of precision in either speed or position. There are trams with flange lubricators that are triggered by GPS when approaching the curves where lubrication is needed, and the same sort of system would almost certainly be good enough for overspeeds too. The GPS would probably also measure the speed so the only interface to the existing circuits would be a power take-off and a relay in the brake interlock.

    I would argue that it doesn't need to be safety-critical either. Trams have operated in the UK for several decades with only one incident of this type, and if you include the much larger tram population and longer history in continental Europe the probability of a driver lapse as at Croydon is very low. So even if the speed monitor isn't to any particular safety integrity level the chances of it failing to intervene at the same time as the tram overspeeds dangerously are vanishingly small. This is on the proviso that it is monitored or checked regularly to ensure it is still working, not having stopped working six months ago with nobody doing anything about it.
     
  14. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    872
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    Those TVMs are ancient (they're the originals and the same design as those bought by SNCF and RATP around 20 years ago, most of which have been replaced). I'd be surprised if they could be updated to support Oyster and imagine they may be replaced in the coming years. They haven't even yet updated them to accept new £1 coins or £5 notes!
     
  15. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    9,136
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    First Group annual results, they say "It would not be appropriate” to award a cash or deferred shares bonus to Tim O'Toole on top of his £1.24m salary in light of the Croydon crash (received a 1m bonus the year before). Then go on to say in the small print they are awarding him a £2m share bonus deferred till 2020 contingent on Croydon accident inquiry.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jun 2017
  16. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,810
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    I can't recall the last time I even saw a person using one...

    I wonder if TfL will even bother replacing them (especially given that buses are now fully cashless) - doesn't strike me as particularly "Value for Money"
     
  17. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

    Messages:
    7,692
    Joined:
    28 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
    I agree, more likely that a small low cost review of Oyster ticket stops on the network is carried out so theres nowhere without one within 5 minutes walk of a platform.

    Baring mind that contactless is widely used and that railway booking offices on the network plus of course some TVM's are able to do Oyster topup then I think there is little to worry about in terms of lack of opportunity to pay.
     
  18. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Theyre not value for money as its far more expensive than the oyster/contactless fare but its staggering that they still have upgraded them. I only asked as I lost my Oyster and was at Waddon Marsh and had to buy a ticker from them.
     
  19. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Ive no idea where the nearest shop is to lots fo the tram stops Wandle Park/Waddon Marsh/Ampere way and so on and whilst I know the shop close to Arena its no good if you are out first thing in the morning before the shops open. Should have auto top up enabled really so I have no excuses really but merely pointing out that not everyone will know where local shops are if not from the area.
     
  20. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

    Messages:
    7,692
    Joined:
    28 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
    Thanks very much for mentioning auto topup, you have reminded me that I have still to update my new card details on TFL as a number of journeys coming up in the next week and auto topup needs reinstating.


    on a related note, anyone know of any tramlink weekend closures/disruptions this Sunday?
     
  21. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,314
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Ive not heard of any coming up
     
  22. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

    Messages:
    3,576
    Joined:
    20 May 2012
    Location:
    Torbay
    I would go for an unpowered balise or other simple RfID type beacon device in the four foot, encoded with simple static data about the upcoming speed restriction (identity, distance and speed) and interrogated by each passing tram. Each balise would be placed at the normal braking commencement distance before the start of a SIGNIFICANT restriction that it applied to, a kind of 'tram AWS' associated with a co-located braking commencement sign. There would be no need to interface to any on-board traction control and braking equipment, at least initially. In the cab I would start an audio-visual alarm a few seconds after passing the balise that would continue to flash and sound, becoming increasingly strident, until acknowledged by the driver. When trams are renewed or heavily rebuilt in the future, more sophisticated control improvements could be incorporated to actually enforce action such as applying emergency brakes to a stand if no acknowledgement is received (similar to main line AWS) or actually automatically controlling the vehicle speed down to the target restriction within the distance available. The system would only be applied at significant speed changes on a risk assessed basis. I expect sites chosen would only be approaching the ends of the reserved track sections where higher speed running at up to 80kph is followed immediately by severe curves, transitions to shared road running or signalled junctions (including those protecting single line sections) There should be little problem incorporating the small number of balises in the four foot and even if one is rarely required in road paving, tough modern balise type devices should be possible to embed in the surface if required (unlike fragile TPWS grids). At sites where approach speed is already controlled effectively by a passenger stop immediately before the sharp curve or junction, then I think the advance warning system would probably not be required. A very simple system requiring no powered trackside devices or communications infrastructure, and only very simple functionality on the vehicles.
     
  23. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

    Messages:
    2,839
    Joined:
    15 Nov 2011
    Location:
    London
    Excellent detail! :)

    Yes, that's pretty much what I had in mind.
     
  24. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

    Messages:
    2,315
    Joined:
    31 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Any news on the proposed new loop line west of East Croydon station? TfL ran a consultation then it all went quiet...
     
  25. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    872
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    I notice this morning that the "new" PIS screens have finally had a software update so they can display something other than THE NEXT TRAM'S DESTINATION IN CAPITALS (presumably up to this point they'd been controlled by the same software as the original late 90s screens?) The one at Beckenham Jn now shows the next three trams' departure times and platform allocations in mixed case.
     
  26. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,606
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    The Wimbledon Branch (and I would have assumed the rest of the system) has had that for a couple of weeks now.
     
  27. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

    Messages:
    7,692
    Joined:
    28 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
    A push button info point delivering TTs spoken info as displayed on screans would benifit the visually impaired.
     
  28. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    872
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    Ah ok. Beckenham Jn was one of the last stops to lose its old screens so we might be a bit behind!
     
  29. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,606
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    I expect that the whole system would have gone live at once, unless you can remember the old system in place at Beckenham Junction in the past few weeks. More weirdly, unless my mind is playing tricks on me, the changeover happened during the day - I caught the tram in the morning and it had the old 2 line system, but when I came home, it had gone to the new one - so it must have been some sort of software change.

    It has been a very long project though - I have distinct memories of Dundonald Road (Wimbledon-bound) getting it's "new" display around the time of the building of platform 10b at Wimbledon.
     
  30. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,272
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    Not being strongly advertised online at present. From Friday 25/08/17 to Sunday 03/09/17, the Addington branch will be closed for engineering works. A replacement bus service will run between East Croydon and New Addington. Quite likely to be driving for some of the days :)
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2017
  31. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    872
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    Curious. I am at least certain that the old display formats were in use on the evening of 17th July when I caught an eastbound tram from Lebanon Rd.
     

Share This Page