Croydon Tramlink

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Clip, 3 Nov 2016.

  1. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Thank you very much for that. It would appear there has been a rethink on the interpeak/Saturday service to Elmers End and Beckenham, unless it's being conveniently ignored in the TfL statement.

    I would imagine the decision to abandon route numbers is related to operational flexibility i.e. New Addington trams will, on occasion, go through to Wimbledon and Beckenham/Elmers End trams will sometimes do the Croydon loop, even in peak hours, for maintenance of headway. On the whole, I think this is a good move - the creation of Line 4 only complicated things unnecessarily. Also, since West Croydon Station joined the Overground, there is much more likelihood of New Addington residents wishing to avail themselves of it than Beckenham or Elmers End residents.
     
  2. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    873
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    They are being oddly cagey about exactly when the changes might happen. The email said something like “possibly as soon as early 2018”.
     
  3. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,318
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    yeah ive never really understood why people wanted route numbers when a destination is all that matters!!
     
  4. tsr

    tsr Established Member

    Messages:
    7,280
    Joined:
    15 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Between the parallel lines
    Those website news releases can't be genuine anyway. They don't have the words "the mayor, Sadiq Khan" plastered all over them. :p
     
  5. MotCO

    MotCO Member

    Messages:
    585
    Joined:
    25 Aug 2014
  6. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    None of the Mayors has ever seemed the slightest bit interested in Tramlink, other than when making false promises in order to garner extra votes just prior to an election.
     
  7. Antman

    Antman Established Member

    Messages:
    5,828
    Joined:
    3 May 2013
    Location:
    London
    I don't really see why the mayor would need to get involved with Tramlink. What false promises were made?
     
  8. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Boris Johnson, two successive elections, promising Tramlink to Crystal Palace i.e. a short spur from the Beckenham Junction branch. That part of the world is Labour/Tory marginal territory cf Gavin Barwell.
     
  9. MarkWi72

    MarkWi72 Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    13 Nov 2017
    That spur would be well used. Would it serve Gipsy Hill?
     
  10. Antman

    Antman Established Member

    Messages:
    5,828
    Joined:
    3 May 2013
    Location:
    London
    I don't think that was viable anyway, there are heavy rail links between Crystal Palace and Croydon buses for intermediate journeys, the money would be better spent making a few improvements to local buses.
     
  11. Antman

    Antman Established Member

    Messages:
    5,828
    Joined:
    3 May 2013
    Location:
    London
    No it wouldn't have served Gipsy Hill.
     
  12. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,318
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    Barwell was woodside ward in south norwood and he got ousted in the last election
     
  13. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    My point entirely - he got ousted and was forced to go and work at no. 10:smile:
     
  14. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    10,318
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    :smile::smile::smile: apologies I misunderstood
     
  15. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    873
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    Just had an email confirming the route changes will take place from Sunday 25 Feb:

    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/trams/new-tram-service-pattern-and-timetable?cid=tram-changes
    From Sunday 25 February 2018, we're changing tram service patterns and timetables to make our service more reliable and less crowded, with more even intervals between trams.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Feb 2018
  16. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Interesting bit of doublethink here, on the lines of the old song with the line 'accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative'.
    If you're travelling from Addington, you're expected to celebrate the fact you can travel directly to the 'northern part of Croydon town centre' i.e Centrale and West Croydon, whereas if you're coming from Beckenham/Elmers End you have that wealth of 'new opportunities' created by the trams going to Wimbledon instead of West Croydon! What about those passengers who preferred the old arrangements?! Of course, it's a partial return to original Tramlink arrangements, the exception being the Beckenham Junc service joining the Elmers service to Wimbledon, although even there Beckenham had evening trains from Wimbledon at the start.

    The other bit of the statement that is more contentious, because untrue, is that if a stop will have 20 trams ph rather than 22 ph average waiting times will be reduced!

    On the whole, though, I think these changes are for the good: more trams to/from Wimbledon at most times and the operational flexibility of no route numbers e.g. if a tram from New Addington gets to East Croydon, its destination can suddenly change to Wimbledon from West Croydon and, so long as those already on the tram are informed, it won't concern passengers boarding in George Street where their tram originated from, cos they won't know anyway! I'm sure this will happen, just as EE/BJ trams will occasionally be cut short round the Croydon loop.

    Seeing as how on my last London visit my only trip to Croydon was to Mayday Casualty Dept, can anyone tell me what (if anything) is happening with the proposed Dingwall Road terminating loop?
     
  17. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    873
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    I suspect the Dingwall Loop has been quietly dropped along with almost all the other TfL plans that involved spending money...
     
  18. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

    Messages:
    3,584
    Joined:
    20 May 2012
    Location:
    Torbay
    I'd say of all the eastern branches, Addington would have the most benefit in being able to interchange with LO in both directions at West Croydon. Elmers End and Beckenham Jn lines have alternative means to get to south east London by interchange at their extremities. Addinton has no other rail interchange opportunities so best to maximise that potential in central Croydon. Seems a sensible routing arrangement to me, and fairly simple to understand.
     
  19. Bourlea

    Bourlea Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2015
    Isn't the Dingwall Loop something to do with the Westfield development and access to their car parks?
     
  20. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,110
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Seems sensible to me too, and I never really understood why it was taken away. I just bridle at the implication that it will benefit ALL Addington passengers at the same time as ALL Beckenham/Elmers passengers will benefit from a direct link to Wimbledon: if this were indeed the case, then it was very remiss of TfL to continue with existing arrangements for so long!
     
  21. Antman

    Antman Established Member

    Messages:
    5,828
    Joined:
    3 May 2013
    Location:
    London
    Surely people from New Addington will change at East Croydon rather than West Croydon for rail connections? Southern services from East serve exactly the same stations as far as New Cross Gate.

    I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other whether trams to and from Wimbledon go to New Addington or Beckenham Junction/Elmers End.
     
  22. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

    Messages:
    5,487
    Joined:
    27 Feb 2011
    Price.

    Using Oyster PAYG it's just £1.50 off-peak from West Croydon to (say) New Cross Gate. Whereas from East Croydon it's £2.70.
     
  23. plcd1

    plcd1 Member

    Messages:
    788
    Joined:
    23 May 2015
    TfL have confirmed today that the Tramlink network will go cashless from 16 July 2018. A consultation report has been issued on the TfL consultation site. Ticket machines will be removed and not replaced by any other facility. TfL have only committed to a publicity campaign and a short transitional "grace period" for anyone caught out by the revised arrangements. Suggestions for "one more ride" (negative balance) and more Oyster Ticket Stops have been rejected by TfL.
     
  24. Bourlea

    Bourlea Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2015
    While the previous post is correct, I think it would be helpful highlighting the following (from the report)
    Only 66 paper tickets issued each day, down from 250 last year.
    Cash price for paper ticket is higher than Oyster/ contactless and doesn’t allow the ‘hopper’ journey to be used.
    The machines were installed almost 20 years ago and don’t have Oyster top up capability.
    I believe that all the tram stops that are interchangeable with National Rail have ticket machines that can be used to top up Oyster cards and all tram stops have local area maps that show where you can also top up your Oyster in local shops.
    Finally, this happened with the bus network and people accepted it, contactless is the future, so while the paper ticket is now on its way out, the humble pay as you go Oyster card could be next in line for retirement!
     
  25. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

    Messages:
    5,487
    Joined:
    27 Feb 2011
    I agree that now contactless is available (and especially with weekly capping) there's no longer a need for many people to get an Oyster card.

    There are about 6 million Oyster photocards (cards with various discounts) plus who knows how many Oyster cards with Railcard discounts.

    But the main reason I don't think we'll see PAYG Oyster cards scrapped anytime soon is that (as of 31 March 2018) the total amount of PAYG balances is £159million, plus £163million in deposits. That's £322million that TfL has use of - and £322million that they'd need to refund if they got rid of PAYG cards!

    Source: TfL
     
  26. mmh

    mmh Established Member

    Messages:
    1,594
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2016
    I think the main reason you won't see oyster payg disappear any time soon is nobody's going to propose you have to have a bank account with a conctactless payment card you're also willing to use to pay to travel in London.

    It'd be political suicide.
     
  27. Bourlea

    Bourlea Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2015
    Ok, let’s keep the Oyster PAYG cards and invest some of the deposits in the proposed Tram extension to Sutton or a new fleet of either longer trams or more trams as Westfield seems to have now decided on a date to revamp Croydon town centre
     
  28. mmh

    mmh Established Member

    Messages:
    1,594
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2016
    Longer trams can't happen because there are very few places you could lengthen platforms. Without new places to turn trams around and getting rid of more of the single track sections there's little chance of a more frequent service.

    The easiest part to double track that's left is probably Arena to Elmers End, but there's been improved a lot over the past few years by converting the cripple siding to a loop. It would be relatively easy to double track it and have 2 platforms there.

    The biggest off-street bottleneck left is probably the single track flyover at Wandle Park. I wonder if that was the most short sighted decision
     
  29. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,606
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    My experience was that the Mordern Road - Phipps Bridge single track section was often bottlenecking the service, although that was a while ago now and things might be better.
     
  30. urpert

    urpert Member

    Messages:
    873
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Zone 4 or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
    Right o , better buy a souvenir ticket from the machine before they all go!
     

Share This Page