CSRE (Polaris, Pulsar And Pacesetter) - Who Are They?

[Doomotron]

Pretty much self-explanatory. Are (were) they the same company as CSR in China?

 

[James James]

They're "China Source Rail Equipment". It seems like it could have been a closely linked company, but still separate from CSR- but they also don't seem to exist anymore. (Their old website leads to nothing now: csre.co.uk )

This presentation on their ideas... is fascinating, and also calls "CSRE" a bridge between CSR and European customers:
https://www.slideshare.net/Kingfisher200262/csre-uk-approach-linkedin-feb11-6989747

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

CRRC, the merger of CNR and CSR (of which CSRE was part), is the firm you need to worry about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRRC

CRRC is a Chinese publicly traded rolling stock manufacturer, formed on 1 June 2015 with the merger of CNR and CSR.
As of 2016 it had 183,061 employees, and is by far the largest rolling stock manufacturer in the world eclipsing Alstom and Siemens.

They are not on the shortlist for any UK bids, not even for HS2.
However, they are active worldwide, eg they are building EMUs for Sydney Trains.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Pacesetter is a name that rather has the wrong ring to it in the arena of British railways...

 

[jimm]

Pacesetter is a name that rather has the wrong ring to it in the arena of British railways...

The emu design was called Pacemaker. From Railway Gazette back in 2009:

Chinese rolling stock manufacturer CSR Nanjing Puzhen Rolling Stock Co announced on May 21 that it plans to offer electric multiple-units from its Pacemaker family in response to a call for tenders to supply London Midland with between 40 and 120 vehicles.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/csr-to-offer-pacemaker-emu-in-britain.html

 

[DanNCL]

CRRC, the merger of CNR and CSR (of which CSRE was part), is the firm you need to worry about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRRC


They are not on the shortlist for any UK bids, not even for HS2.
However, they are active worldwide, eg they are building EMUs for Sydney Trains.

CRRC are on the shortlist for the new Tyne & Wear Metro units so are trying to make an entry in to the UK market.

 

[Doomotron]

The emu design was called Pacemaker. From Railway Gazette back in 2009

They renamed it to Pacesetter.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They renamed it to Pacesetter.

The obvious problem is still there though... makes it seem deliberate!

 

[rebmcr]

Who Are They?

The Chinese government, but wearing a trench coat and fake mustache/nose/glasses.

 

[swt_passenger]

My cynical view is that someone expected to make his fortune by applying a relatively large markup to cheaper Chinese rolling stock, while still undercutting the usual European train builders. No-one seems to have taken up the offer back then...

 

[southern442]

My cynical view is that someone expected to make his fortune by applying a relatively large markup to cheaper Chinese rolling stock, while still undercutting the usual European train builders. No-one seems to have taken up the offer back then...

Well I mean plenty of european products on the market right now are pretty cheap anyways, could these trains be much worse?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

From what I can remember from the time they were part of the same group that originally owned Grand Central and Alliance Rails expansion plans featured CSRE built trains replacing the HSTs, the revival of GNER brand for what eventually became GCs Bradford services operating services from Huddersfield and Stalybridge to London as GNWR and also had Blackpool as new services. None of the plans came to fruition and GC and alliance rail is now owned by Arriva.

 

[43096]

Well I mean plenty of european products on the market right now are pretty cheap anyways, could these trains be much worse?

Yes. They would be cheap for a reason. You'd get no support for them, so getting acceptance would be a costly exercise for the operator for a start.

 

[43096]

From what I can remember from the time they were part of the same group that originally owned Grand Central and Alliance Rails expansion plans featured CSRE built trains replacing the HSTs, the revival of GNER brand for what eventually became GCs Bradford services operating services from Huddersfield and Stalybridge to London as GNWR and also had Blackpool as new services. None of the plans came to fruition and GC and alliance rail is now owned by Arriva.

Heavily pushed by the consultant who acted as GC's Engineering Director in the early days. Funnily enough, he was also acting as a consultant to a Chinese train builder wanting to break into the UK market.

 

[3141]

Pacesetter is a name that rather has the wrong ring to it in the arena of British railways...

I've apparently forgotten some past event. Or else there's a double-entendre that I'm too innocent to understand. Can you explain?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Heavily pushed by the consultant who acted as GC's Engineering Director in the early days. Funnily enough, he was also acting as a consultant to a Chinese train builder wanting to break into the UK market.

Yes, that sounds very familiar. think he is still floating around the Blackpool open access company which may well be a remnant of that plan. Ian Yeowart was also heavily involved tho not sure if these are the same person. A lot has changed in 10 years...

The Polaris was essentially a Chinese copy of the HST, obviously updated to modern standards but fully compatible with the mk3. Grand Central were going to be the first to use them. There was an electric version proposed too according to wikipedia

 

[jopsuk]

I've apparently forgotten some past event. Or else there's a double-entendre that I'm too innocent to understand. Can you explain?

Pacesetter and Pacer are to some extent synonyms.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I'm pretty sure CSRE were present at Railtex one year; certainly, David Shipley was present representing them, but I can't remember from my conversation with him if he was there as MD of the company or as an agent/etc.

Wasn't it also suggested at one time that Porterbrook were interested in buying some driving/passenger vehicles from this Chinese company to replace DVTs on Norwich services?

 

[anamyd]

Yes. They would be cheap for a reason. You'd get no support for them, so getting acceptance would be a costly exercise for the operator for a start.

Apparently CAF didn't expect to be giving the level of support that was assumed for their new builds

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've apparently forgotten some past event. Or else there's a double-entendre that I'm too innocent to understand. Can you explain?

Pacesetter and Pacer are to some extent synonyms.

Pretty much. If I was trying to sell a train for use in Northern England, I'd avoid calling it anything that sounded like "pacer"!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm pretty sure CSRE were present at Railtex one year; certainly, David Shipley was present representing them, but I can't remember from my conversation with him if he was there as MD of the company or as an agent/etc.

David Shipley was the MD of CSRE and he was once a member of this very website some years ago using the username Kingfisher200262.

 

[Aictos]

The emu design was called Pacemaker. From Railway Gazette back in 2009:



https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/csr-to-offer-pacemaker-emu-in-britain.html

Is it just me but doesn't that look awfully like the Siemens Class 380 design? The Chinese design looks like they took the Siemens design and just reverse engineered it/copied it with a few minor changes.

 

[43096]

David Shipley was the MD of CSRE and he was once a member of this very website some years ago using the username Kingfisher200262.

Given how utterly useless he was as GC’s Engineering Director then it is no surprise they didn’t win an order. There was a documentary made many years ago about GC’s start up and his inability to manage suppliers was shocking.

 

[GrimShady]

Polaris would have been a better concept than IEP.

 

[3141]

Pretty much. If I was trying to sell a train for use in Northern England, I'd avoid calling it anything that sounded like "pacer"!

Thanks for answering my question, and thanks to jopsuk as well. If I was buying a train for use in Northern England, or the South West or Wales, its name wouldn't be my no.1 preoccupation. Apparently Greater Anglia and Merseyrail weren't much concerned about names either, when they ordered something called Flirt.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The emu design was called Pacemaker. From Railway Gazette back in 2009:



https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/csr-to-offer-pacemaker-emu-in-britain.html

That is an awful render. That end gangway door looks like it was lifted from another image.