Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[themiller]

It’s also a lot quieter in the house now that there are only 156s going past!

 

[The_Train]

I assume usage figures has risen on the line whilst the 37s have been out? If so, I wonder if Northern will be keeping an eye on how the usage changes with just 156s running up and down and whether any future decisions will be based on this

 

[The_Train]

At least the normal passengers won't have to put up with the basher's stench any more. The smell on the penultimate day was bad enough; the state of the some of the specimens on board was really something.

Perhaps, but at least the trains won't smell like sewers so there's that.

Well it did on Thursday, the stench was noticeable. Don't take it too personally, it happened!

A rather large proportion it would seem, enough to stink a whole coach out.

Are you this judgemental when out in the real world and coming face to face with the people you have issues with? Or do you just save your anger for an internet forum?

 

[Harbornite]

I'm not angry, I just don't really like the smell of BO and I actually think that personal hygiene is important so sue me! Besides, I wasn't the only one on the train who noticed the stench so there's that.

 

[Harbornite]

I assume usage figures has risen on the line whilst the 37s have been out? If so, I wonder if Northern will be keeping an eye on how the usage changes with just 156s running up and down and whether any future decisions will be based on this

Not across the board. Look at usage stats for St Bees for instance.

 

[Newshy37]

I often used them to St Bees, walk to the cafe for a brew and some grub then back. Not that this is of any great relevance. I would engineer trips up that way and make the loco hauled turns part of the trip, not that the two of us would have made much difference to passenger figures but I can't see me going from Ravenglass to Carnforth, Preston to St Bees or Green Rd to Ravenglass and any of the other countless odd trips I made on a unit.
It was fun whilst it lasted. I have no facts and figures to quote and have no idea where I would find them. Whatever anyone says a loco hauled coach is far superior to the units chugging round the coast. I find it a lovely ride out but he great general public want something that works and will be there when it is supposed to be to get to work or the shops or whatever.
Does anyone have genuine figures for train cancellations, including units, I mean the reasons why, quite often I got the impression it was not the loco at fault. Just out of curiosity.
Whilst on one a while ago I was told that a special final trip was to be arranged, was this just froth? Or am I missing summat?

 

[D6700]

Just to lighten up from some of the over the top ranting going on here, enjoy this:

 

[Harbornite]

Just to lighten up some from of the over the top ranting going on here, enjoy this:

Sums it up well, I mustard mitt.

 

[nicolaboo]

No weekend service so I'll have to squeeze it in sometime else (and wait until it's light enough to actually see something!)

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that a full Saturday service now runs.

 

[robvulpes]

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that a full Saturday service now runs.

Fake news - see this timetable for next Saturday https://d2cf7kiw5xizhy.cloudfront.net/images/timetables/bucket/carlisle---barrow---lancaster-1822.pdf. And compare with the non-strike timetable https://d2cf7kiw5xizhy.cloudfront.net/images/timetables/bucket/carlisle-to-preston-and-manchester-via-cumbrian-coast-and-preston---windermere-1632.pdf 2 trains each way at Ravenglass (for example) compared with over a dozen in the full Saturday timetable.

[EDIT: to sort out links]

 

[Roose]

Figures produced by the Furness Line Action Group (I don't think that they are made publicly available) compare all services with LHCS services.

Over the most recent four month period to the end of November the number of LHCS trains that were cancelled, part-cancelled or seriously late was almost exactly double the figure for all services on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines. The latter figure itself was almost three times the franchise requirement.

 

[Newshy37]

Wow! That is a lot! I had no idea.

 

[yorksrob]

Figures produced by the Furness Line Action Group (I don't think that they are made publicly available) compare all services with LHCS services.

Over the most recent four month period to the end of November the number of LHCS trains that were cancelled, part-cancelled or seriously late was almost exactly double the figure for all services on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines. The latter figure itself was almost three times the franchise requirement.

Out of interest, was there an improvement in the LHCS when the newer locos were on ?

 

[87015]

Out of interest, was there an improvement in the LHCS when the newer locos were on ?

More importantly, what data are they using? The resolved and accepted delay incidents, or guessing/making it up from early reports and RTT?

 

[BlueFox]

Fake news - see this timetable for next Saturday

That link doesn't work, but it's not relevant anyway, as the thing you were replying to was referring to the Norwich to Great Yarmouth service.

 

[sprinterguy]

Out of interest, was there an improvement in the LHCS when the newer locos were on ?

There was, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I can jog my memory with the specific figures from the current issue of Modern Railways, unless someone else has them to hand.

 

[yorksrob]

There was, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I can jog my memory with the specific figures from the current issue of Modern Railways, unless someone else has them to hand.

Ah cheers, I'll be buying it soon, so will be able to look then.

 

[sprinterguy]

There was, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I can jog my memory with the specific figures from the current issue of Modern Railways, unless someone else has them to hand.

Ah cheers, I'll be buying it soon, so will be able to look then.

For completeness, figures for the moving annual average Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN) causing a delay of three minutes or more, since the loco-hauled service commenced, as at Period 7 (Ending Mid-October) for each railway year:

10/2015: 2,424*
10/2016: 3,315
10/2017: 2,611
10/2018: 5,327**

*Service commenced 18/05/2015, so only 5 months data represented.
**Class 68s introduced 12/03/2018, so only 7 months data represented for class 68 operation and unfortunately no granularity between the reliability of class 37 and class 68 locos.

 

[yorksrob]

For completeness, figures for the moving annual average Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN) causing a delay of three minutes or more, since the loco-hauled service commenced, as at Period 7 (Ending Mid-October) for each railway year:

10/2015: 2,424*
10/2016: 3,315
10/2017: 2,611
10/2018: 5,327**

*Service commenced 18/05/2015, so only 5 months data represented.
**Class 68s introduced 12/03/2018, so only 7 months data represented for class 68 operation and unfortunately no granularity between the reliability of class 37 and class 68 locos.

Thanks for posting. There seems to have been a significant improvement over 2018, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that at least part of that was down to the change in traction.

 

[theblackwatch]

One more final chance if your name is drawn, I suspect a few kidzzz will be upset owing to the date...
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...ial-cumbrian-service-to-commemorate-class-37s

To commemorate the service of the Class 37s on the Cumbrian Coast, Northern and Direct Rail Services (DRS) have commissioned a farewell return journey between Carlisle and Carnforth on Friday 11 January.

The Class 37s were removed from service on the Coast and were replaced with DMU units on 28 December 2018.

The commemorative journey, on 11 January, will be the last chance for rail enthusiasts to ride on the 37s on this route, and to mark the occasion special keepsake tickets have been produced. All money raised from the event will be donated to local charities.

 

[Roose]

Out of interest, was there an improvement in the LHCS when the newer locos were on ?

Sorry I don't have figures to hand but my impression was that the Class 68 TnT trains had far fewer problems.

More importantly, what data are they using? The resolved and accepted delay incidents, or guessing/making it up from early reports and RTT?

Why more importantly? What relevance do resolved and accepted delayed incidents have in a comparison of similar data divided between all trains and those which are LHCS-operated?

I can't answer for FLAG but I imagine someone from the organisation looks each day at all services on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines on RTT or similar. They note how many are cancelled, part-cancelled or fail to arrive within 30 minutes of their scheduled time then express the sum as a percentage of all services. They then remove all those services scheduled to be units from the data and recalculate to give the equivalent LHCS figure. Seems a reasonable comparison to me.

Some days a failed unit may be substituted by LHCS; other days perhaps the reverse. Given the number of services run over a three/four-month period, and assuming that factors other than the operation of a particular type of train that lead to cancellation, part-cancellation are consistent across all types of trains, this should not affect the reliability of data trends.

 

[Entertexthere]

One more final chance if your name is drawn, I suspect a few kidzzz will be upset owing to the date...
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...ial-cumbrian-service-to-commemorate-class-37s

i can agree with kids being upset- unless the stars align and my name gets pulled out of a hat and this supposed beast from the east part 2 hits, i'm gonna be out of luck. morale of the story- dont leave it too late!

 

[59CosG95]

i can agree with kids being upset- unless the stars align and my name gets pulled out of a hat and this supposed beast from the east part 2 hits, i'm gonna be out of luck. morale of the story- dont leave it too late!

Beast from the East 2? You sure that's not just the tabloids frothing as they always do at this time of year?

 

[Bikeman78]

Figures produced by the Furness Line Action Group (I don't think that they are made publicly available) compare all services with LHCS services.

Over the most recent four month period to the end of November the number of LHCS trains that were cancelled, part-cancelled or seriously late was almost exactly double the figure for all services on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines. The latter figure itself was almost three times the franchise requirement.

What a difference a decade makes. They were reliable on the Cardiff to Rhymney line and they had to work hard to keep to the sprinter schedules.

 

[sprinterguy]

One more final chance if your name is drawn, I suspect a few kidzzz will be upset owing to the date...
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...ial-cumbrian-service-to-commemorate-class-37s

I appreciate that it's where DRS' primary depot is, but I suspect that starting from comparatively remote Carlisle will further suppress demand, coupled with the threat of presumably having to spend a couple of hours in the afternoon sampling the 'delights' of Barrow-in-Furness.

Though then again I suppose Carlisle is more accessible by fast Pendolino from more areas of the country than Barrow situated at the end of Britain's longest cul-de-sac via road or rail.

Sorry I don't have figures to hand but my impression was that the Class 68 TnT trains had far fewer problems.

The figures I've posted upthread appear to prove the truth of this.

Why more importantly? What relevance do resolved and accepted delayed incidents have in a comparison of similar data divided between all trains and those which are LHCS-operated?

Because cancellations and delays may be caused by factors other than fleet reliability, such as staff shortage or signal failure but may not initially be recognised as such. Only via the dark convoluted art of delay attribution does the source of the issue sometimes become clear. This isn't always recognised in publicly available data such as RTT feeds.

 

[Entertexthere]

Beast from the East 2? You sure that's not just the tabloids frothing as they always do at this time of year?

That's why I said "supposed"

 

[Suraggu]

From what I followed of the Class 68 hauled services, cancellations only happened due to Northern Staff shortages, infrastructure failures or coaching stock faults.

 

[LeylandLen]

Beast from the East 2? You sure that's not just the tabloids frothing as they always do at this time of year?

Whats wrong with 'the tabloids frothing ' etc .. they do it to sell papers, make money , as the railways should do if managed properly ....
Yes I do live in Lancashire , Northern are a major TOC here !

 

[Roose]

I appreciate that it's where DRS' primary depot is, but I suspect that starting from comparatively remote Carlisle will further suppress demand, coupled with the threat of presumably having to spend a couple of hours in the afternoon sampling the 'delights' of Barrow-in-Furness.

Though then again I suppose Carlisle is more accessible by fast Pendolino from more areas of the country than Barrow situated at the end of Britain's longest cul-de-sac via road or rail.

The figures I've posted upthread appear to prove the truth of this.

Because cancellations and delays may be caused by factors other than fleet reliability, such as staff shortage or signal failure but may not initially be recognised as such. Only via the dark convoluted art of delay attribution does the source of the issue sometimes become clear. This isn't always recognised in publicly available data such as RTT feeds.

Oh how we laugh at the 'longest cul-de-sac' jibe! It came from a comedian (Mike Harding). You understand how comedians make jokes? (Never been to Scarborough, Whitby, Devon & Cornwall, Hull, etc?)

Good second point. Barrow isn't accessible by fast Pendolino from anywhere. Odd, that.

A couple of hours in Barrow? Unfortunately the National League form team have no game that day so you'll have to make do with admiring the Victorian architecture, visit the Dock Museum, walk around the wonderful public park, visit one of the four nature reserves, take a stroll on one of the beaches or, I suppose, even visit 'The Duke' outside the station or look at the pretty pictures of trains in the 'Furness Railway' a little further down Abbey Road. Helpfully, both serve not only good beers but hot drinks. You may need them after several hours in a carriage with the door windows open all the way from The Great Border City.

Of course a train may not turn up for many reasons but delay attribution is irrelevant to the figures I referred to and you have ignored my original question. If you have waited for a train to work, school or college at, say, Seascale then over a four-month period you have been twice as likely to have had a LHCS train cancelled, part-cancelled or more than thirty minutes late at its final destination compared with all trains on the two routes.

Given the large number of scheduled services run over a four-month period, can you suggest why that huge difference could be consistently attributable to any reason other than one type of train being inherently less reliable than the remainder?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A couple of hours in Barrow? Unfortunately the National League form team have no game that day so you'll have to make do with admiring the Victorian architecture, visit the Dock Museum, walk around the wonderful public park, visit one of the four nature reserves, take a stroll on one of the beaches or, I suppose, even visit 'The Duke' outside the station or look at the pretty pictures of trains in the 'Furness Railway' a little further down Abbey Road. Helpfully, both serve not only good beers but hot drinks. You may need them after several hours in a carriage with the door windows open all the way from The Great Border City.

Or you could walk into town and admire the 1960's shopping precinct, then walk round the back and dance with the druggies and drunkards.