Cumbrian Coast Timetable - no 37s to Preston, but a best ever timetable from May 20

[Steve Hammond]

Thank you 30907

Thanks again for the info 30907 had a great day out running up and down to Barrow

 

[Bevan Price]

Will any members of this esteemed fraternity be on this train on Thursday? Perhaps it ought to have been suggested earlier as a forum meet up (or whatever they are called).

Incindentally - although RTT says the 37s are timed for 75 mph max, is there any reason why they can't do 90 mph on the Carnforth - Lancaster - Preston section?

Lack of sufficient braking power on short formation hauled stock. Applies to all locos, not just the 37s - but I think the remaining 37s are now all limited to 80 mph.

 

[Bevan Price]

Looking at the new timetable, it seems that 2 sets of loco-hauled stock will still be needed:

05:50 Barrow - Carlisle
08:51(SO) / 09:03 (SX) Carlisle -Barrow
15:31 Barrow - Carlisle

06:16 Carlisle - Barrow
09:02 (SO) / 09:18 (SX) Barrow - Carlisle
12:08 Carlisle - Barrow
14:52 Barrow - Carlisle
17:45 Carlisle - Barrow

(Or will an afternoon "swap" occur at Barrow ?)

Presumably these will still be a mix of 37 / 68 haulage?

No loco-hauled trains shown for Sundays.

 

[PHILIPE]

Looking at the new timetable, it seems that 2 sets of loco-hauled stock will still be needed:

05:50 Barrow - Carlisle
08:51(SO) / 09:03 (SX) Carlisle -Barrow
15:31 Barrow - Carlisle

06:16 Carlisle - Barrow
09:02 (SO) / 09:18 (SX) Barrow - Carlisle
12:08 Carlisle - Barrow
14:52 Barrow - Carlisle
17:45 Carlisle - Barrow

(Or will an afternoon "swap" occur at Barrow ?)

Presumably these will still be a mix of 37 / 68 haulage?

No loco-hauled trains shown for Sundays.

I think you'll find they have been discussed here:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams-discussion-updates.89697/page-21

No LHCS on Sundays

 

[Bevan Price]

I think you'll find they have been discussed here:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams-discussion-updates.89697/page-21

No LHCS on Sundays

Sorry, I missed that one -- easy to do when there are so many pages in a thread.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I don't know if it's been discussed elsewhere (apols if so) - but just looking at the record on this line last week on RTT, and it's appalling. Checking times at Sellafield, 8 trains cancelled on Monday,
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...28/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

5 on Tuesday, 6 on Wednesday, 8 again on Thursday and with Friday a "top performance" day of "only" 3 cancellations. What the hell is going on? It's like the worst period of Cl 37 LHCS operations. It's no good having a wonderful new timetable if this is the daily fare. Many of those cancellations affected key commuter trains to and from Sellafield, of course.

 

[swissrailpassion]

Today looks dreadful too.

 

[backontrack]

Interestingly, Dalston, Aspatria, Harrington, Corkickle and Foxfield are no longer request stops.

 

[splashoutradio]

Interestingly, Dalston, Aspatria, Harrington, Corkickle and Foxfield are no longer request stops.

I hadn't noticed that, well spotted!
Northern appear to have "de-requested" a few stops this time round - Reddish South & Denton have also become compulsory stops.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I realise it is early days, but has anyone been on the Sunday services? I'd be interested to hear how they are loading, and whether the new service is attracting folks to the area, eg the Ratty? (perhaps most folks arrive by road?)

 

[TheWalrus]

When were request stops removed at Dalston and Aspatria? Not been there since 2004!

 

[alansheppard77]

When were request stops removed at Dalston and Aspatria? Not been there since 2004!

still says request at the stations

 

[Hardcastle]

I travelled yesterday (Sunday) joining the train at Ravenglass (1347) 6 passengers joined the train there was a 11 minute delay due to waiting crossover at St Bees i asked the conductor about the southbound connection at Barrow she said there where 6 passengers requesting that so it appears it is having some usage. I would say the trains up there where rather quiet on Friday the strikes taking its toll.

 

[TheWalrus]

still says request at the stations

You mean on the stations themselves?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Appears whichever 37 was on the Cumbrian Coast today failed causing the 14:52 from Barrow to be subbed a 156.

 

[alansheppard77]

You mean on the stations themselves?

yes on the station

 

[70014IronDuke]

Have we got an recent observer reports on how things are going in terms of loadings? I mean, on weekdays and the new Sunday trains?
I realise the strike must have hit demand, and I seem to have seen a few failures (37s, perhaps?) and cancellations due to "Issues with the train crew" - but seems to have settled down of late. On RTT today (06/08) lots of trains 3' to 10' late, but nothing catastrophic.

 

[dk1]

Used the route a couple of times to tick the Spoons in Whitehaven & Workington as well as taking a ride on the Ravenglass & Eskdale. Was surprised at the frequency but loadings where only so so. Trains filled up at Sellafield briefly but many others seemed to have around 15-20 aboard. As said the rubbish time Northern is going through can only damage the business at the moment. Thankfully things like this are a nine minute wonder & people soon forget. Hope it's a success as is a lovely route.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Running a robust timetable seems impossible on this line. The 06.16 ex-Carlisle (loco-hauled) left 41 late today, causing a delay to the following train. And there seem to be cancellations almost every day. Yesterday there were at least four total or partial cancellations.
Not always due to LHCS of course. But really not good for business. LHCS apart, the service still seems unreliable compared to the nearby S&C and Leeds - Lancaster routes.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The real world is much more complicated, but....

The current (May 2018) timetable requires a minimum of 13 units / diagrams to operate each train (Lancaster - Barrow - Carlisle) at its published times ie no flexing at all. In practice more than 13 are required due to the loco hauled services but set off against this one unit disappears south at 0545. So I'll stick at 12 diagrams to provide the core service.

A standard hourly timetable running through from end to end would require 8 units / diagrams. The easiest way is to cross every service at St Bees. By doing so you cross all the other trains en-route in the double track sections. Additional peak services, such as half-hourly into Lancaster am (and back pm), eat into the 5 diagram saving.

Go armchair timetable planners, go!

 

[70014IronDuke]

The real world is much more complicated, but....

The current (May 2018) timetable requires a minimum of 13 units / diagrams to operate each train (Lancaster - Barrow - Carlisle) at its published times ie no flexing at all. In practice more than 13 are required due to the loco hauled services but set off against this one unit disappears south at 0545. So I'll stick at 12 diagrams to provide the core service.

A standard hourly timetable running through from end to end would require 8 units / diagrams. The easiest way is to cross every service at St Bees. By doing so you cross all the other trains en-route in the double track sections. Additional peak services, such as half-hourly into Lancaster am (and back pm), eat into the 5 diagram saving.

Go armchair timetable planners, go!

Interesting explanation for what is needed - but no details as to what Northern has actually got or can deliver. Are you saying that Northern can't muster the units, or the staff, or reliability just mucks it all up so often, or ... ?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Interesting explanation for what is needed - but no details as to what Northern has actually got or can deliver. Are you saying that Northern can't muster the units, or the staff, or reliability just mucks it all up so often, or ... ?

None of the above!

I haven't been out that way for a while. It would be useful to know how many units/carriages are allocated to provide the various services ie single 153, doubled up 153, doubled up 156 or whatever.

Part of the apparent 'inefficient' resource allocation is the need to allocate capacity at certain times of the day ie holding units back for certain departures and also having one of the loco hauled sets at Barrow during the daytime.

What I was suggesting is that a regular interval timetable is perfectly achievable, utilising existing 'standard hourly paths' out of the WCML at Lancaster and Carlisle. That such a service would require 8 rather than 13 diagrams (so a clear saving). That units would cross at convenient points. That several minutes can be allowed at St Bees for trains to cross. That several minutes can be allowed at Barrow for recovery/crew change/attach & detach. And even after that plenty of time is available at Lancaster and Carlisle for turnround/recovery. Additional peak time extras can be added from the 5 diagram 'saving'.

Why the current and previous timetables are such a dogs breakfast only Northern/Network Rail insiders know!

A regular interval timetable is far easier for the public to understand and remember. What time is the train Fred? 0617 and every hour. Coming back 0738 and every hour. Only two numbers to remember - 17 and 38.

As an aside, all of the Lancaster - Preston trips, all of the current trips through to Manchester Airport and the interworking with the Windermere service can be achieved with the same 13 diagrams plus one for Windermere ie 14 total.

 

[30907]

The dogs breakfast includes such things as differential timings for LHCS and requirements of Sellafield - which latter means that a neat timetable with crossings at St Bees won't go down well!
That said, hourly with crossings at Sellafield should work in terms of the single line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Running a robust timetable seems impossible on this line. The 06.16 ex-Carlisle (loco-hauled) left 41 late today, causing a delay to the following train. And there seem to be cancellations almost every day. Yesterday there were at least four total or partial cancellations.
Not always due to LHCS of course. But really not good for business. LHCS apart, the service still seems unreliable compared to the nearby S&C and Leeds - Lancaster routes.

The Cambrian seems to be suffering the same issues, and that’s with it all as 158s. To their credit they do seem to be holding connections at Mach, though.