Cupar: the poor relation when it comes to tickets?

[Romilly]

I was looking at a possible trip to Cupar from London, travelling up late on a weekday evening and coming back the following Sunday afternoon.

First, I discovered that Cupar is in something of a train-service wilderness: sandwiched between Leuchars (which unlike Cupar is served by fast Scotrail trains and by the East Coast trains to/from Aberdeen) and Ladybank (which is served not only by virtually all trains serving Cupar but also by trains to/from Perth).

Geography is geography, I thought, and guessed that the lower intensity of service would be compensated by sensible ticket pricing.

But no: it is almost impossible to get London-Cupar or Cupar-London Advances, and certainly not at times anywhere close to those at which I wanted to travel. I tried various options, but so far as I could see the problem is with Scotrail not offering "and connections" quota on many of its services to/from Dundee. I can sort of understand why there might not be such quota on peak commuter services into and out of Edinburgh, but I really fail to see the rationale for not offering "and connections" quota on e.g. the 2208 and 2308 from Edinburgh to Dundee on a weekday evening.

As for Sundays, not everyone travelling from Cupar to London wants to leave on the 0944. And even if afternoon trains into Edinburgh are busy, I cannot believe that there isn't scope for quota on the 1432 to Leuchars (which terminates at Dundee) to connect into the 1516 VTEC service to Kings Cross.

It seems to me that Virgin Trains East Coast should be putting pressure on Scotrail to provide the necessary quota.

Commercially, if they don't work together to sort this out then, from December when the Edinburgh Gateway station opens and radically improves connections from Cupar & the rest of Fife to Edinburgh airport, there will for Cupar-London and other Fife-London travellers be a step-increase in the attractiveness of flying from Edinburgh as compared with taking the train.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on all of this?

 

[John @ home]

It does appear that Advance fares from Cupar are available on Scotrail trains only, not on journeys involving other train companies. Taking Sunday 29 May as an example, Advance Cupar - London tickets are available on 0944 Cupar - 1103 Edinburgh 1130 - Kings X 1635 only. The 0944 is the only southbound service from Cupar that day on which reservations are not available, so an Advance ticket quota is not relevant.

I would suggest split tickets. Using the 29 May example again, Advance Cupar - Edinburgh tickets are currently available on all nine southbound services other than the 0944 on that day, costing £7.20 on seven of them. Advance Edinburgh - London tickets are plentiful at £53 or £66.50, but if the price is £66.50 on your chosen train then I would be tempted by the flexibility given by a £141.40 London - Cupar Super Off-Peak Return (valid from Kings X 0906-1459 and from 1859 Mon-Thu, 1815 Fri; from Cupar by any train Sun).

 

[Romilly]

Thank you for those comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, northbound on a weekday (other than a Friday) the super offpeak return is not valid on trains between the 1400 and 1900 departures from Kings Cross, and the connection to Cupar out of the 1900 departure involves a 6-hour overnight wait at Edinburgh!

And even though you and I might look for split Advances, I think that the commercial issue for VTEC remains: the average Cupar-London traveller is going to look at the headline train prices, which will largely be the flexible fares, and then fly.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on all of this?

Leuchars prices are likely to be virtually the same, and no sensible train guard would penalise someone for alighting/boarding with a Leuchars ticket at Cupar.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Thank you for those comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, northbound on a weekday (other than a Friday) the super offpeak return is not valid on trains between the 1400 and 1900 departures from Kings Cross, and the connection to Cupar out of the 1900 departure involves a 6-hour overnight wait at Edinburgh!

And even though you and I might look for split Advances, I think that the commercial issue for VTEC remains: the average Cupar-London traveller is going to look at the headline train prices, which will largely be the flexible fares, and then fly.

I thought the Super Offpeak Restriction started at 1500?

 

[Romilly]

It does, but in the sense that the ticket is not valid on trains timetabled to depart after 1459, with the result that the ticket is not valid on the 1500.

 

[pepperpot80]

If the King's Cross restriction is the deal-breaker, would you consider leaving from London Euston instead? The 1K restriction on return travel from Euston would allow travel on the 15:30 and 16:30 departures, albeit with the extended journey times and changes at Preston/Carlisle & Haymarket.

 

[Romilly]

That is helpful, thank you. Indeed, following up your suggestion I see that the super offpeak return is also valid on the 1730 out of Euston which then connects with the last train of the day to Cupar. Certainly something to ponder, although I still think that the better solution (and long-term the commercially most sensible) would be a proper range of "VTEC & Connections" Cupar-London/London-Cupar Advances.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It does, but in the sense that the ticket is not valid on trains timetabled to depart after 1459, with the result that the ticket is not valid on the 1500.

Sorry I was thinking the 1430 was one of the trains extended north of the border but is isn't
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That is helpful, thank you. Indeed, following up your suggestion I see that the super offpeak return is also valid on the 1730 out of Euston which then connects with the last train of the day to Cupar. Certainly something to ponder, although I still think that the better solution (and long-term the commercially most sensible) would be a proper range of "VTEC & Connections" Cupar-London/London-Cupar Advances.

There is a full range, 17 over both classes. The problem may lie with the connecting services.

 

[Romilly]

The problem may lie with the connecting services.

I would tend to agree, which is why I think VTEC and Scotrail need to work together to sort out the actual availability of Advance tickets.