Current and past Your Bus drivers get bans

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aformeruser

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Route One said:
Drivers’ hours and tachograph offences committed by nine current and former drivers employed by Heanor-based Dunn Motor Traction, trading as Your Bus, while on National Express work led to them losing their PSV driving entitlements for between one and four weeks.

The drivers appeared before Deputy Traffic Commissioner (DTC) Simon Evans at a Golborne Public Inquiry. Consideration of action against the PSV O-Licence held by the company, of Heanor Gate Industrial Estate, Heanor Gate Road, Heanor, has been adjourned until a date to be fixed.

Traffic Examiner (TE) Dietmar Buergel said that an investigation in June 2014 into the company’s operations concentrated on the EC regulated work. They processed raw data from tachographs and driver cards. They also had access to the National Express traffic log system.

They were clearly able to identify the driver in regard to a large number of offences.

Drivers were routinely removing their cards from the tachograph equipment while continuing to drive. They would get encrypted messages saying to make a manual entry showing they had taken a break.

Driver Wayne Woolley had four instances of false records and one of failing to make a record. He said that he had been following instructions and that he was told that if he did not do it, it would cost him his job.

When he telephoned the company saying that he was not going to make it within the hours’ limits when on National Express work, he was told: “you know what to do.” He had received no training whatsoever and had not realised the implications of removing his card.

He left the company about six months ago. He raised matters with the company but they just did not care. The DTC suspended his entitlement for four weeks.

Driver Paul Ridgeway had one instance of falsification. He said that he had passengers who had paid a lot of money to get to the airport and he had to get them there. He had never had any tachograph training.

He left the company in August as he was fed up with it. He would run out of hours at motorway service areas and the company would say they would send another driver out to take over, but they never did. The DTC suspended his entitlement for 14 days.

Former Driver Training Officer Ashley Entwistle had one instance of falsification and one of failing to make a record. He said that on one occasion he had forgotten to put his card in the tachograph when setting off.

He admitted removing his card when he ran out of hours after being diverted because of an accident. The only training he had undertaken with drivers was the National Express induction process. He had left the company at the end of May. The DTC suspended his entitlement for 14 days.

Driver Stephen Boston had three instances of falsification. He said that on one occasion the Operations Manager had told him that he could drive an empty vehicle back if within 50 miles’ radius of base without having his card in the tachograph. On another he had thought that driving the pool car for 45 minutes was classed as a break. Nothing was explained to him at the time. The DTC suspended his entitlement for three weeks.

Driver Ian Hutsby had four instances of falsification. He said that he had just been trying to get his passengers to their destination on time. He was not given any help by Your Bus or any help and assistance from National Express. He had had no tachograph training whatsoever.

He had not realised the seriousness or the consequences at the time. It was due to the pressure he had been put under by both companies and fear of losing his job. He was told on occasions that he had to do it because there was nobody else to do it. Three speeding offences were due to the pressure he had been under. The DTC suspended his entitlement for three weeks.

Driver Christopher Garlant had one instance of falsification. He said that he spoke to the traffic supervisor at the time who said it was not safe to stop and to continue with the journey. He was often put under pressure by Your Bus to get to the destination in time. If he did not do so his job was on the line.

It had been a nightmare. He left in May as it was getting worse and worse and that was probably why the company lost the National Express contract. He had worked for five companies on National Express work and Your Bus was the worst he had worked for. The DTC suspended his entitlement for seven days.

Driver Gavin Hallsworth had one instance of falsification. He said that he hadn’t a clue why his card wasn’t in the tachograph for 23 minutes. He could only think he was “buying time” on a positioning journey. He had never had any tachograph training. The DTC suspended his entitlement for seven days.

Driver Edward Wilson had three instances of falsification. He said that on one occasion he had forgotten to put the card in the tachograph. On the other occasions he was told it was OK to drive an empty coach without using his driver card. He had no training and was just thrown in at the deep end. He had to do it or get the sack. He left the company in August. The DTC suspended his entitlement for seven days.

Driver Eric Justice had three instances of falsification. He said that he hadn’t realised he had been driving without a card on one occasion.

On another he was a passenger and he had thought that counted as a rest period. The DTC suspended his entitlement for seven days.

Driver Ian Coope was given a formal warning after the DTC accepted his explanation that someone else took over the coach when he took his card out and the new driver did not put a card in the tachograph.

The case against Driver John Fordham was adjourned to await further evidence.

http://www.route-one.net/legal/your-bus-drivers-get-bans/

Sounds like some of the directors at Your Bus need to be suspended as well.
 
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aformeruser

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winston270twm

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aformeruser

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The most recent set of Yourbus accounts on Companies House also show that it isn't a loss making operation, however these are to 28th Feb 2015 prior to being stripped of NX work.

The quote from Scott Dunn suggests the UK Yourbus non-NX operations wouldn't survive as a standalone operation.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Dunn
The Australian business has the ability now to give financial support to the UK, which means we no longer rely on NX income.

This explains a mystery that has had me puzzled for some time!
 

BestWestern

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Any operation guilty of deliberate breaches such as these should be wound up. No ifs, no buts. Might provide a proper deterrent to some of the cowboys.
 

Lrd

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Not enough of a punishment in my opinion. Four weeks of not driving coaches sounds like a holiday to me.

Tacho rules are there for a reason, you do the training when going for your license and CPC and also get a leaflet explaining the rules when you receive your digi tacho card.
 

the101

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http://www.route-one.net/industry/yourbus-and-national-express-part/

I'm sure the Australian's will love that comment - a profitable business in Australia sends it money to the UK to subside a loss making operation, instead of providing benefits in Australia.

There are no Australians. The same person (Scott Dunn) owns both Yourbus and the business in Australia. Unbelievably he splits his time between England and Australia and was making the round trip every month... :shock:

As for the other points made, I am sure that Yourbus's TM and other managers will have their chance to explain themselves formally to Beverley Bell if they have not done so already.

I believe that the final straw for NX was some kind of episode involving a wheelchair user and one of Yourbus's drivers.
 
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winston270twm

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The quote from Scott Dunn suggests the UK Yourbus non-NX operations wouldn't survive as a standalone operation.

Maybe it's time to pack up, sell out & concentrate on Australia. Yourbus hasn't been the same since the MD emigrated
 
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I do wonder whether NX coaches are really doing themselves any favours sticking to the contracted out model. They have had a significant number of incidents where they got bad PR having used fly-by-night operators, and done properly a good in house operation could well be more customer responsive, and not necessarily more expensive.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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, you do the training when going for your license and CPC and also get a leaflet explaining the rules when you receive your digi tacho card.

No you don't... when I passed My psv it was with a company only dealing with British hours.. and no mention was made of eu/tacho rules.. I've done a CPC course dealing with tacho rules and it was only the basics of what work you can/ can't do... as for a leaflet with my digicard.... well all I can say is that someone at DVLA was very lacking in diligence when they sent my card!!!!
 

Robertj21a

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Not enough of a punishment in my opinion. Four weeks of not driving coaches sounds like a holiday to me.

Tacho rules are there for a reason, you do the training when going for your license and CPC and also get a leaflet explaining the rules when you receive your digi tacho card.

By the sound of the story so far it will be the company/management that [rightly] gets totally hammered for this, not so much these inexperienced drivers.
 

edwin_m

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It will be interesting to see how what happens here plays out in comparison to the WCRC saga. There are considerable parallels where failings by individuals "at the sharp end" suggest a systematic problem within the respective companies.
 

KendalKing

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No you don't... when I passed My psv it was with a company only dealing with British hours.. and no mention was made of eu/tacho rules.. I've done a CPC course dealing with tacho rules and it was only the basics of what work you can/ can't do... as for a leaflet with my digicard.... well all I can say is that someone at DVLA was very lacking in diligence when they sent my card!!!!

Very Interesting, When I took my PSV as it was back in the early 1980's. I was taught about both UK and European driving hours.

It was because of the ignorance of these rules, by so many people (Drivers & Managers), as to being one of many reasons for the introduction of the driver CPC.
 

Robertj21a

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Does any moneygrabbing predator like this behave?

This is a fine example of why on-road competition is not a good thing at all.

It can be ok if the competitors remain professional - think Stagecoach vs First etc. This case is, to me, far worse as the charges relate just to National Express work where YB had won certain routes on contract and there was no competition whatsoever.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It can be ok if the competitors remain professional - think Stagecoach vs First etc. This case is, to me, far worse as the charges relate just to National Express work where YB had won certain routes on contract and there was no competition whatsoever.

Exactly. This has nothing to do with competition - this was on work awarded under tender by NatEx.

TBF, I think the "defence" of ignorance of regs is both neither a defence nor particularly credible anyway.
 

Tetchytyke

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This has nothing to do with competition - this was on work awarded under tender by NatEx.

Not on road competition anyway. I think this- as well as the repeated problems at the YourBus Bradford depot- goes to show what happens when companies tender based on price alone.

TBF, I think the "defence" of ignorance of regs is both neither a defence nor particularly credible anyway.

Of course it isn't, though any sensible driver will blame his boss for tacho offences, given the criminal implications.
 

aformeruser

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Every very long distance NX service* I've been on has had two drivers on the coach, so presumably if it gets delayed getting to the point where the drivers are due to switch or if one driver takes ill the drivers can make a switch to continue the service. However, obviously 2 drivers on board isn't the cheapest option.

* I'm meaning routes like the South West to Edinburgh and Yorkshire to London opposed to routes like Sheffield to Blackpool.
 

Lrd

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Very Interesting, When I took my PSV as it was back in the early 1980's. I was taught about both UK and European driving hours.

It was because of the ignorance of these rules, by so many people (Drivers & Managers), as to being one of many reasons for the introduction of the driver CPC.
When I took my license in 2014 I also learned both domestic and EU rules even though I would only ever work under domestic for that employer.
 

Robertj21a

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Every very long distance NX service* I've been on has had two drivers on the coach, so presumably if it gets delayed getting to the point where the drivers are due to switch or if one driver takes ill the drivers can make a switch to continue the service. However, obviously 2 drivers on board isn't the cheapest option.

* I'm meaning routes like the South West to Edinburgh and Yorkshire to London opposed to routes like Sheffield to Blackpool.

Certainly the very long distance routes operated by Parks etc tend to have 2 drivers throughout (often based in Rochdale!) but the Yourbus routes I saw were mostly shorter distance and had just 1 driver.
 

winston270twm

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Every very long distance NX service* I've been on has had two drivers on the coach, so presumably if it gets delayed getting to the point where the drivers are due to switch or if one driver takes ill the drivers can make a switch to continue the service. However, obviously 2 drivers on board isn't the cheapest option.

* I'm meaning routes like the South West to Edinburgh and Yorkshire to London opposed to routes like Sheffield to Blackpool.

Wasn't one of the other issues Yourbus were suffering a shortage of both bus & coach driver and they were struggling to cover all the NX diagrams on the run up to contracts being terminated
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Not on road competition anyway. I think this- as well as the repeated problems at the YourBus Bradford depot- goes to show what happens when companies tender based on price alone.



Of course it isn't, though any sensible driver will blame his boss for tacho offences, given the criminal implications.

Procurement people, irrespective of the area, will place undertakings on legal compliance etc. I'm sure that TfL tenders will include reference to compliance to legislation (whether that be maintenance, insurance, health and safety etc).

A driver may wish to blame his boss but for an individual to claim ignorance about not knowing that they shouldn't pulling their disc is frankly rubbish!
 
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notadriver

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It will be interesting to see how what happens here plays out in comparison to the WCRC saga. There are considerable parallels where failings by individuals "at the sharp end" suggest a systematic problem within the respective companies.

My feeling is that as far as rail is concerned companies operating like WCRC are virtually non existent and TOCs operate completely above board. There is no pressure to work excessively or dangerously as seems to be standard practice in many places in the road transport industry. This is I believe one of the main reason rail is perceived to be safer than road.

A comparison might be Southeastern which operate commuter rail services to Kent and Kings Ferry coaches which do the same. The Southeastern driver will have had at least 12 hours rest prior to working and do a maximum 9h15 day. Kings Ferry on the other hand expect their drivers to cover both the morning and afteroon commutes. They regularly work up to the legal maximum of 15 hours twice a week and 13 hours other days and so can easily clock up 60+ hours. Use of the POA mode allows the 48 hours WTD limit to be exceeded but not counted as it isn't 'work'.
 

aformeruser

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My feeling is that as far as rail is concerned companies operating like WCRC are virtually non existent and TOCs operate completely above board. There is no pressure to work excessively or dangerously as seems to be standard practice in many places in the road transport industry. This is I believe one of the main reason rail is perceived to be safer than road.

Once I experienced a conductor chatting away at Manchester Piccadilly when his train should have been ready for departure and a staff member in the uniform of another operator told him to get on with his job. I can't imagine that happening with bus operators.
 

aformeruser

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Sounds like some of the directors at Your Bus need to be suspended as well.

I didn't realise at the top of posting this that the general manager at YourBus in June 2014 was Stephen Bryce who replaced Stuart Hyslop at GHA Coaches when he retired in late 2014.

Although, the registration of GHA services to Warrington (which created a bus war) pre-dated Bryce joining GHA.
 
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