Daft fares

[ashworth]

Probably as a result of the new Northern service a £19 Off Peak Day Return has recently been introduced between Nottingham and Leeds. However, if you want to travel to other West Yorkshire destinations such as Bradford or Halifax, involving a change of train at Leeds, it costs £30.50 for an OPR as no Day Return is available.

Therefore splitting at Leeds would at first appear to be the best option but there is a way that it can be done for only £18 (a pound less than a day return to Leeds. Buy an Off Peak Day Return from Nottingham to somewhere like Rochdale or Oldham as strangely enough these are valid via Leeds as well as the more direct route via Manchester.

 

[scrapy]

Manchester Picc - Barnsley - Route Sheffield is £15 CDR
Manchester Picc - Sheffield £15.70 CDR

 

[stut]

Peterborough - Worksop £20 ODR
Peterborough - Mansfield Route Worksop £18 ODR

(add on WRK-SHF, and you've got a bargain fare to Sheffield)

Peterborough - Wakefield £52 OPR
Peterborough - Meadowhall Route Wakefield Westgate £42.50 OPR

 

[yorkie]

Peterborough - Worksop £20 ODR
Peterborough - Mansfield Route Worksop £18 ODR

(add on WRK-SHF, and you've got a bargain fare to Sheffield)

Peterborough - Wakefield £52 OPR
Peterborough - Meadowhall Route Wakefield Westgate £42.50 OPR

They are not "Route Worksop" or "Route Wakefield Westgate" they are both "Route Any Permitted" but (I assume - without checking) valid via those points.

Anyway to continue the theme,

Peterborough-Leeds SOR £112.00
Peterborough-Carlisle (Route Appleby) SOR £83.40

 

[stut]

Yes, 'valid via', rather. NXEC's booking engine offers them, but I rarely delve into the routeing guide to get its take. Similarly:

Bedford - Leicester £24 OPR
Bedford - Nuneaton £30.70 OPR
Bedfrod - Coventry (valid Leicester/Nuneaton according to NXEC) £20.70 OPR

 

[John @ home]

Peterborough-Leeds SOR £112.00
Peterborough-Carlisle (Route Appleby) SOR £83.40

I don't think this one is such a bargain because the £52 Peterborough - Leeds SVR has virtually unlimited availability.

As we learned yesterday, better on a Peterborough - Leeds journey to split at Wakefield and use a Peterborough - Meadowhall ticket for the Peterborough - Wakefield leg.

John

 

[Mystic Force]

Some years ago I use to travel between Exmouth and Southampton. There were 2 routes available the great western route or west of england route the fare for great western was route westerbury but was valid on either route where as the route honiton was more exspensive by about 3 pounds and was restricted to only that route. I did once have to get that one as there was engineering work that weekend and I was taking my bike so had to book it on the train.

 

[MCR247]

NOT - EDB

ANY PERMITTED: SOS £91.50
VWC & CONNECTIONS: VES £13.50

This was using advantix, which route would the second one be valid on

 

[tony_mac]

that's an advance fare - so valid on whichever trains you can book it on (if any).

 

[John @ home]

NOT - EDB

ANY PERMITTED: SOS £91.50
VWC & CONNECTIONS: VES £13.50

This was using advantix, which route would the second one be valid on

To find a fare at that price search for Nottingham - Edinburgh via Appleby.

John

 

[martyn29]

I wish there was a book with all this in! Everytime I go somewhere, I have to see if itc cheaper to split, most times it is!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I did try and write down all the fares from Edinburgh to Plymouth (so I could go on the hst) so I could go Edinburgh to Plymouth on the XC hst splitting tickets along the way. Wish I had kept that piece of paper... I am thinking of doing some sort of database...

 

[krus_aragon]

And another one:

Bangor - Llandudno Junction: FDS £7.20 (FDR £14.40)
Bangor - Llandudno: FDS £6.90 (FDR £13.80)

There are no through trains for BNG-LLD, you have to change at LLJ. Mind you, there are no first class trains for LLJ-LLD, either. Standard fares are rationally priced.

 

[323235]

Southport - Chester "Any Permitted" £2.90 (with RC)
Valid on the Northern Rail through trains via Manchester on a Sunday
which is a 160 Miles in total!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

There are loads of fare anomalies in West Yorkshire,which I did a paper on for the fares managers at both Northern and TPE last year. I hope they will one day work towards correcting them.

For example:

HUD - LDS
SDS £4.10
SDR £6.70
CDR £4.70

HUD - WKF Rte LDS
SDS £3.50
SDR £6.30
CDR £3.90

HUD - to virtually any station in the Pontefract / Knottingly area is cheaper than HUD - LDS, yet the tickets are valid via Leeds. Also HUD - NPD & BDI are cheaper than Leeds, even though the tickets are valid via Leeds.

WKF - BGH Rte Direct is £2.00, yet WKF - HUD Rte Direct is £2.65. The Direct train from WKF - BGH goes through HUD on the way!!

In West Yorkshire, in principal, if you are going from HUD or DEW to somewhere else in West Yorkshire where you have a choice of routes (either via LDS or Not Via LDS) the fare is normally always cheaper than HUD or DEW to LDS.

I suggested that ultimately, what needs to happen is that there is a Rte NOT LDS fare for these flows, which is about the same as the current Any Permitted fares, then a Rte LDS fare is introduced which is priced slightly higher than the current HUD / DEW - LDS fares. There are quite a few folk who know about these anomolies and buy tickets which are cheaper than HUD - LDS and exit at LDS - which is of course perfectly legal! (HUD - BDI uses maps WK & WY according to the Routeing Guide, hence allowing travel Direct or Via Leeds!).

Apparently Northern, who set these fares, are on with altering them gradually, but it is apparently very complicated and time consuming putting extra routes in!

 

[John @ home]

There are loads of fare anomalies in West Yorkshire,which I did a paper on for the fares managers at both Northern and TPE last year. I hope they will one day work towards correcting them.

That's very interesting. Is your paper in the public domain?

John

 

[Solent&Wessex]

That's very interesting. Is your paper in the public domain?

John

I haven't made it public as such, no, but I can't see why not.

 

[yorkie]

There are loads of fare anomalies in West Yorkshire,which I did a paper on for the fares managers at both Northern and TPE last year. I hope they will one day work towards correcting them.

Oh dear, fare rises then!

With very few exceptions, the way TOCs get rid of anomalies is to put the cheaper ticket up in price or they will campaign to ATOC to get the Routeing Guide changed

I don't want to see any anomalies removed unless the TOCs were bound to not increase any fare by more than inflation - that would mean they'd have to lower the unfairly high prices.

The scam is not that some fares are too low, it's that some are too high! But asking TOCs to fix anomalies will not result in good news for passengers IMO

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Oh dear, fare rises then!

With very few exceptions, the way TOCs get rid of anomalies is to put the cheaper ticket up in price or they will campaign to ATOC to get the Routeing Guide changed

I don't want to see any anomalies removed unless the TOCs were bound to not increase any fare by more than inflation - that would mean they'd have to lower the unfairly high prices.

The scam is not that some fares are too low, it's that some are too high! But asking TOCs to fix anomalies will not result in good news for passengers IMO

It would only necessarily mean fare rises for journeys going via Leeds. HUD - BDI / BDQ SDS is currently £2.90 which is valid Any Permitted, which includes via Leeds to Bradford Interchange or Forster Square. HUD - LDS is £4.10. HUD - Shipley & Frizinghall is also £4.10 SDS. I doubt you could justify decreasing the HUD - LDS fare to £2.90, just to avoid putting the Bradford fare up, as this would only throw up further anomolies with destinations such as New Pudsey, Burley Park etc, as well as meaning you would have to put the Shipley & Frizinghall fares down. Where there are separate routes to get to a multitude of places, like West Yorkshire, unless you are going to have completely zonal ticketing and ignore point to point tickets, it is only sensible to have different routings in this situation.

You could end up with HUD - BDI Rte Not Leeds = £2.90 as now, and HUD - BDI Rte Any Permitted £4.10, the same as Leeds. You can thus still get to Bradford on the direct train for the same price as now.

Or you could alter the routing guide so that HUD - BDI tickets were not valid via Leeds, but I don't think is a very sensible idea at all.