Dales Rambler

[ASharpe]

I've got a bit of holiday coming up and am trying to make some plans but got a bit confused by the Dales Ranger.

NRE say there are no times restrictions http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/55882.aspx

But BRFares says not valid until after 0930 http://www.brfares.com/#roverdetail?nlc=K809&rvr=DR1

Assuming it is after 0930 would I be ok to use my Young persons railcard on the 0938 from Shipley?

 

[Romilly]

But the 16-25 railcard is subject to paying a minimum £12 fare after discount for journeys starting before 10am on weekdays in September to June. Given that the Rambler ticket costs £12 before discount, I think that the answer is that it will be fine for you to use your railcard on the 0938 but that the discounted fare will be £12 (unless this is a question about travel in July or August).

 

[Rover]

You may also notice that NRE have yet to update their prices!

 

[ASharpe]

But the 16-25 railcard is subject to paying a minimum £12 fare after discount for journeys starting before 10am on weekdays in September to June. Given that the Rambler ticket costs £12 before discount, I think that the answer is that it will be fine for you to use your railcard on the 0938 but that the discounted fare will be £12 (unless this is a question about travel in July or August).

That's what I thought - but as the Two Together restrictions were very specific I thought they might not apply for the 16-35. Or maybe there is some difference in validity between buses and trains.


I'm still none the wiser on whether I could start a journey before 0930 though.

 

[Merseysider]

I'd print or save a copy of the NRE page showing no applicable time restriction. Guards and barrier staff should accept that.

Can't speak for bus drivers though, who receive little or no training on rail ticket validity.

I was of the opinion that the minimum fare only applied to (Super) Off Peak/Anytime fares but I'm not certain.

 

[bb21]

As the fare type does not appear in the list of fares where minimum fare applies, my opinion is that no minimum fare is applicable.

 

[John @ home]

As the fare type does not appear in the list of fares where minimum fare applies, my opinion is that no minimum fare is applicable.

I hope you're right, but the 16-25 Railcard terms & conditions suggest otherwise:

7. A £12 minimum fare applies for journeys starting between 4.30am-10am Monday to Friday excluding Advance Fares. This minimum fare does not apply on Public Holidays or throughout July and August.

https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

In addition, the Settle & Carlisle Railway Development Company are clear that the 0430-1000 restriction does apply to the Settle Carlisle Day Ranger, but they don't mention the £12 minimum fare or the morning restriction on the Two Together Railcard at all:

£15 Day Ranger Ticket

A Settle Carlisle Day Ranger ticket is available. This reduces the cost of travel for many journeys on the Leeds (or Bradford Forster Square)-Settle-Appleby-Carlisle line.

The ticket allows travel from any station between Leeds, or Bradford Forster Square to Carlisle. The ticket is also available for travel from all stations from Carlisle south to Leeds and Bradford. It is valid for one day and has no time restrictions. It will allow passengers to get on and off the train as they wish, travelling in any direction. Priced at £15.00 for adults and £7.50 for children, this is great value. Railcard holders (including the local Dales Railcard) will be eligible for a further 1/3 discount (£9.90). The 16-25 Railcard can only be used after 10am Monday-Friday and at weekends to obtain a discount on the Ranger ticket. From Sunday 21 May the ticket price will be increased to £30.00.

The offer will be a fantastic opportunity for people from West Yorkshire to explore the Yorkshire Dales and beyond at a great price. It will also benefit the local residents along the line with a great value fare to Leeds and Bradford in the south and Carlisle in the north.

The Day Ranger ticket can only be purchased at any staffed station ticket office or from the conductor on the train.

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket/

 

[bb21]

It all depends on your interpretation.

The time restriction on Two Together Railcard is a blanket ban, whereas the minimum fare restriction on the 16-25 may be open to interpretation.

From the more public-facing sources, simply the most notable exclusion is shown, ie. Advance fares, although the actual list of exclusions is longer, however in the Knowledgebase, this is shown as a list of fares the minimum fare applies to, and another list where no minimum fare is applicable. The direct result being that not all fare types are listed, for obvious reasons.

This then goes down to one's interpretation. The agreed protocol AIUI is that if something is not explicitly forbidden in fares matters, it is assumed to be allowed. This approach would most likely be in line with how a court of law would rule should such a matter get this far.

I am therefore of the opinion that the minimum fare does not apply in this case.

 

[John @ home]

The time restriction on Two Together Railcard is a blanket ban

I thought the only occasion Mon-Fri 0430-0929 where the ban did not apply was when blankets were provided!

Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays.

https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/help/terms-conditions/

Two Together Railcard discounted tickets are accepted on Sleeper services, providing you board the train before 0430.

https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times-tickets/

 

[janb]

I've got a bit of holiday coming up and am trying to make some plans but got a bit confused by the Dales Ranger.

NRE say there are no times restrictions http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/55882.aspx

But BRFares says not valid until after 0930 http://www.brfares.com/#roverdetail?nlc=K809&rvr=DR1

Assuming it is after 0930 would I be ok to use my Young persons railcard on the 0938 from Shipley?

Northern have issued an updated brief.
Ticket is valid at anytime, the 0930 is a mistake.
Normal railcard conditions apply so it would be £12 before 10am and £7.90 after for a 16-25 railcard holder (except weekends/bh/july/august).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd print or save a copy of the NRE page showing no applicable time restriction. Guards and barrier staff should accept that.

Can't speak for bus drivers though, who receive little or no training on rail ticket validity.

In my experience bus drivers will do one of two things:

1. Accept anything that vaguely looks like it might be valid;

2. Say "that's a train ticket, mate" and refuse it whatever it says.

I find number 2 to be more common, sadly.

 

[ASharpe]

Northern have issued an updated brief.
Ticket is valid at anytime, the 0930 is a mistake.
Normal railcard conditions apply so it would be £12 before 10am and £7.90 after for a 16-25 railcard holder (except weekends/bh/july/august).

Great, I think I'll be making even more use of these then.

 

[philjo]

There was a note in Barry Doe's rover guide in this week's Rail that this ticket may be withdrawn as there are now far fewer bus services running.

Which buses were you planning to use?
It is no longer valid on any buses from Ilkley Monday-Friday. also looks like you can't use it north of Grassington (i.e to Kettlewell or buckden) on Weekdays either as that now requires changing buses at Grassington on 72B.


(from Ilkley to Grassington there are now only 2 buses per day on Monday and Wednesday and 3 on Saturday. no buses on Tuesday, thursday or Fridays.)

Dalesbus.org:

Dales Rambler Day Ranger Tickets

Dales Rambler Day Ranger tickets are available for a day trip to the Dales from Leeds and Bradford and all stations on the Airedale and Wharfedale railway lines.

Tickets include travel on Northern Rail services between Bradford Forster Square / Leeds and Ilkley / Skipton, and unlimited travel on any of these DalesBus services:

72, 72R and X43 between Skipton and Grassington
74 between Ilkley, Bolton Abbey and Grassington (Saturdays only)
75 between Skipton and Malham (Saturdays only)
873, 884 between Ilkley, Skipton and Malham (Sundays and Bank Holidays only)
874 between Ilkley, Grassington and Buckden (Sundays and Bank Holidays only)

Prices from January 2016: Adult: £12.00; Child: £6.00; Railcard: £7.90*; Family: £25.00

* = Two Together Railcard discounted tickets cannot be used before 09:30 Mondays to Fridays (excluding public holidays).

Dales Rambler tickets can only be purchased at staffed railway stations or from the conductor on the train (when boarding at unstaffed stations or where the ticket office is closed). Tickets cannot be purchased on the bus.

Note that Dales Rambler tickets are not valid on services 72A/74A (NYCC) or 72B (UWB). Therefore there are no valid bus connections to/from Ilkley Station on Dales Rambler tickets on Mondays to Fridays (except on bank holidays).