Dangerous ticket checking procedures in the early days of railways

[The DJ]

This is a quote from Wikipedia in an entry about the 1838 Harrow rail tragedy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Harrow_rail_accident

At this time train operation was still largely based upon the standards of British stagecoach practice and Port’s (guard) normal travelling location aboard the train was in an outside seat at roof level. It was part of his duty to undertake ticket checks to make sure second class passengers were not sitting in first class carriages. This task required that once the train was underway he would climb down to move along the step boards on the outside of the carriages so he could check the tickets through the door windows.

The "cruising" speed of trains at that time was 30 mph. It seems incredible that anyone would take a job that involved climbing and moving along the outside of a vehicle moving at up to 30 mph

 

[RT4038]

I think there was practice of brakemen running along the roofs of cars to apply handbrakes in North America and elsewhere in the world up until 1900s, probably travelling at speeds a bit higher than 30mph. Suspect there was quite a lot of accidents too....

 

[LowLevel]

Well over 100 years later shunters were still running around yards chasing wagons to pin the brakes down with wooden sticks and being maimed or killed with unfortunate regularity.

 

[Gloster]

It seems incredible that anyone would take a job that involved climbing and moving along the outside of a vehicle moving at up to 30 mph

You have to see it in the context of the time, not judge it by modern standards. Many jobs were dangerous in those days; even life itself was dangerous. For most people a job was an imperative as, if you didn’t have one, you risked starving or freezing to death. The railway offered employment that was relatively well paid and secure.

 

[randyrippley]

Last time I was on the Isle of Man was around 20 years ago, and the ticket checking on the Electric Railway's old toastrack carriages was carried out in exactly the same way.

 

[185143]

Last time I was on the Isle of Man was around 20 years ago, and the ticket checking on the Electric Railway's old toastrack carriages was carried out in exactly the same way.

Try the Cable Cars in San Francisco where *passengers* are expected to do that! Would never be allowed over here for sure.

 

[Gloster]

It is less than twenty years since the last Routemaster disappeared in London; conductors used to stand on the rear platform, leaning out with only the pole to hang on to. Not as dangerous as working your way along a running-board, but more recent.

I can remember as a boy jumping on to the open rear platform of buses: everybody seemed to think it quite normal and accepted that it was at their own risk. On one occasion in Victoria Street my father and I jumped on one just after the conductor had ding-dinged it to pull away. I manage to grab the pole, but my father missed it and ended up on his backside on the pavement. His embarrassment was mainly because, as someone who had been brought up on London, he should have been completely used to grabbing the pole.

 

[philthetube]

It is less than twenty years since the last Routemaster disappeared in London; conductors used to stand on the rear platform, leaning out with only the pole to hang on to. Not as dangerous as working your way along a running-board, but more recent.

I can remember as a boy jumping on to the open rear platform of buses: everybody seemed to think it quite normal and accepted that it was at their own risk. On one occasion in Victoria Street my father and I jumped on one just after the conductor had ding-dinged it to pull away. I manage to grab the pole, but my father missed it and ended up on his backside on the pavement. His embarrassment was mainly because, as someone who had been brought up on London, he should have been completely used to grabbing the pole.

And guards used to hang out of underground trains until the train was half way out of the platform, nothing to stop them falling out and just a vertical bar to hold,

 

[RT4038]

And guards used to hang out of underground trains until the train was half way out of the platform, nothing to stop them falling out and just a vertical bar to hold,

And drivers of older steam trains used to go out and oil/grease certain parts whilst the engine was travelling along. Firemen (stokers) climbed into tenders on heaps of coal to shovel forward.

 

[clagmonster]

It is less than twenty years since the last Routemaster disappeared in London; conductors used to stand on the rear platform, leaning out with only the pole to hang on to. Not as dangerous as working your way along a running-board, but more recent.

I can remember as a boy jumping on to the open rear platform of buses: everybody seemed to think it quite normal and accepted that it was at their own risk. On one occasion in Victoria Street my father and I jumped on one just after the conductor had ding-dinged it to pull away. I manage to grab the pole, but my father missed it and ended up on his backside on the pavement. His embarrassment was mainly because, as someone who had been brought up on London, he should have been completely used to grabbing the pole.

What happens on the Routemasters on the 15H these days? Presumably the conductor is somewhere around the rear platform and presumably there is nothing to stop passengers getting on and bailing out as they wish.

And guards used to hang out of underground trains until the train was half way out of the platform, nothing to stop them falling out and just a vertical bar to hold,

Carried on on Merseyside until relatively recently. I think the practice was stopped on the SWT 455s a little earlier. Whilst there is clearly danger to the guard in this position, it would be interesting to learn whether there were more incidents involving guards falling out than were prevented as a result of their improved view of the platform.

 

[Dave W]

Try the Cable Cars in San Francisco where *passengers* are expected to do that! Would never be allowed over here for sure.

One of my abiding memories of a wonderful trip to San Francisco was holding on for dear life on my final night in the City with some companions, whilst a Sikh grip rang the car's bell to a pretty awesome Banghra rhythm. It certainly felt more than the regulation 9.5mph that the cable runs at!!

 

[Lucan]

drivers of older steam trains used to go out and oil/grease certain parts whilst the engine was travelling along

It was considered to be a factor in the Ais Gill accident on the Midland Railway in 1913. Although the driver was back in the cab before the crash, the fireman got behind with attending to the boiler (they were stuggling up a gradient) and both men were then busy dealing with the boiler and consequently distracted from seeing the danger signals ahead. From Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Ais_Gill_rail_accident

the driver left the cab, to walk round the outside framing and oil some of the working parts while the train was in motion. Even though that procedure was no longer necessary because wick lubricators were in use, drivers apparently continued to do it out of habit and pride.

 

[Taunton]

And drivers of older steam trains used to go out and oil/grease certain parts whilst the engine was travelling along. Firemen (stokers) climbed into tenders on heaps of coal to shovel forward.

David L Smith's books about the G&SWR 100 years ago described how the driver of the leading double header would go back over the tender and along the footplating to have a brief chat with the driver of the second loco!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

If you read Jerome K Jerome , forgotten author apart from "Three Men in a Boat" , he wrote a good amusing book "Diary of a Pilgrimage" about a journey to Oberammagau , - jolly good read and he explains how the German passenger guards were obsessed with ticket checking - perilously doing in motion via the footboards. All a bit of satire , as well as his hatred of Bradshaw.

It was considered to be a factor in the Ais Gill accident on the Midland Railway in 1913. Although the driver was back in the cab before the crash, the fireman got behind with attending to the boiler (they were stuggling up a gradient) and both men were then busy dealing with the boiler and consequently distracted from seeing the danger signals ahead. From Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Ais_Gill_rail_accident

Root cause of course being the Midland Railways purchase of very poor (sized) loco coal from the Carlisle area. That and a "small engine" policy.

 

[geoffk]

It is less than twenty years since the last Routemaster disappeared in London; conductors used to stand on the rear platform, leaning out with only the pole to hang on to. Not as dangerous as working your way along a running-board, but more recent. jumping on to the open rear platform of buses: everybody seemed to think it quite normal and accepted that it was at their own risk. On one occasion in Victoria Street my father and I jumped on one just after the conductor had ding-dinged it to pull away. I manage to grab the pole, but my father missed it and ended up on his backside on the pavement. His embarrassment was mainly because, as someone who had been brought up on London, he should have been completely used to grabbing the pole.

Jumping on and off open-platform buses was normal for me throughout my time at secondary school and university (1958 to 68) and until around 1973. I don't remember ever falling off or missing the pole and there was knack in doing it. Some conductors discouraged it by blocking access to the platform. We knew who they were! I've never lived in London where of course Routemasters remained in regular service until 2005. Ken Livingstone said that the Routemasters were too dangerous, with approximately twelve people per year dying after falling from them during his time as mayor.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Jumping on and off open-platform buses was normal for me throughout my time at secondary school and university (1958 to 68) and until around 1973. I don't remember ever falling off or missing the pole and there was knack in doing it. Some conductors discouraged it by blocking access to the platform. We knew who they were!

What also really hacked off conductors when alighting from open platform buses at a bona-fide stop was double-pinging the bell just as you stepped off the bus.

 

[Taunton]

One of my abiding memories of a wonderful trip to San Francisco was holding on for dear life on my final night in the City with some companions, whilst a Sikh grip rang the car's bell to a pretty awesome Banghra rhythm. It certainly felt more than the regulation 9.5mph that the cable runs at!!

Coming third in the 2017 Cable Car Bell Ringing competition is Singh B Rai, who I suspect might be the same gripman.

Downhill on Powell Street and left into Jackson Street is off the cable and run by gravity, the three blocks downhill from California Street, so the 9.5mph cable speed ... doesn't apply! It picks up the Hyde Street cable immediately after the curve. It's the best bit on the system! I have to say I'm sure they don't come round the corner as fast nowadays as they did when I first knew the system. Stand on the right, and throw your body inwards just at the curve, for best effect (or to look like a local).

 

[181]

Last time I was on the Isle of Man was around 20 years ago, and the ticket checking on the Electric Railway's old toastrack carriages was carried out in exactly the same way.

I don't remember it from my visit in 2008 (but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence).

I do though remember seeing it on the Achenseebahn in Austria in either 2010, 2014 or both. You can see it in this video (not mine) from 2014.

 

[Taunton]

Fortunately nobody seems to have been on the stepboards here in the Isle of Man 5 years ago

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/up...lectric-railway-suspended-after-tram-derails/

Tram no. 58 came off the tracks and toppled onto its side just beyond the Laxey station at around 10.10am.

The tram trailer was not in service at the time of the incident, with no passengers on board.

A full investigation is now underway to determine the cause of the derailment, tram services will resume tomorrow afternoon, a road closure will be required later today to enable engineers to recover the trailer.

 

[randyrippley]

I don't remember it from my visit in 2008 (but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence).

I do though remember seeing it on the Achenseebahn in Austria in either 2010, 2014 or both. You can see it in this video (not mine) from 2014.

The Manx toastracks don't get used very often - too old and delicate

 

[181]

The Manx toastracks don't get used very often - too old and delicate

I remember quite a lot of toastrack trailers being in use, but no powered cars.

 

[30909]

Off topic I know but jumping on an RT in my experience was best done matching your walk/run to the speed of the bus from behind and grabbing the rearmost pole