Dart / Dart SLF versus B6 / B6LE

[scosutsut]

Wonder if someone can help satisfy my curiosity?

Why did the equivalent Dennis products outsell their Volvo counterparts throughout the 90s and 00s by such massive margins? Price? Weight? Running costs? Engine options? Bodywork options? Something else?

When you think of their coach and deckers options of the day, Dennis weren't really at the races, and then they rolled the Dart out and raked it in!

Thanks in advance!

 

[37114]

Probably a combination of all of the reasons you mention. Volvo have never excelled at the lighter end of the truck and bus arena and in fairness to them they do a quality product at the heavier end.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wonder if someone can help satisfy my curiosity?

Why did the equivalent Dennis products outsell their Volvo counterparts throughout the 90s and 00s by such massive margins? Price? Weight? Running costs? Engine options? Bodywork options? Something else?

When you think of their coach and deckers options of the day, Dennis weren't really at the races, and then they rolled the Dart out and raked it in!

Thanks in advance!

Dennis pre-empted the market - Dart was to market in 1989 whilst B6 wasn’t until 1994?

Also, the early B6s were not reliable - Stagecoach offloaded theirs prematurely. So you had fleets that standardised on Darts so when the low floor revolution came, Dennis had the advantage despite the B6LE being quite good

 

[bussnapperwm]

NX was one of the very few who standardised their midi bus types on the B6LE, buying nearly 200 for their Heathrow and Midlands operations

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

NX was one of the very few who standardised their midi bus types on the B6LE, buying nearly 200 for their Heathrow and Midlands operations

Indeed, and crucially had very few Darts.

 

[scosutsut]

Regarding Darts / B6s specifically I always wondered why the Pointer outsold the Dash by such a margin as well - even though both were available on both platforms - time to market again might have been an issue, first Dash's were what 91 versus 89 iirc?

Edit - first Dash bodies were 91, I misremembered!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Regarding Darts / B6s specifically I always wondered why the Pointer outsold the Dash by such a margin as well - even though both were available on both platforms - time to market again might have been an issue, first Dash's were what 91 versus 89 iirc?

Edit - first Dash bodies were 91, I misremembered!

Had a little check on BLOTW

The first Darts were built in 1989 with the Duple Dartline body - I had my first journey in one that was an on loan demo (and know it was Jan 1990) so was able to place that. However, was being a little unfair in that the first B6's were built in mid 1992 with Mainline getting one at the end of the year. I remember that Stagecoach Cumberland had the first production ones but thought they were L reg (they were actually K reg - hence my mistake).

First Pointer (Reebur) was Southampton Citybus in early 1991 whilst the First Dash were in 12/1991 to Hastings and District (Stagecoach) of which J501GCD is preserved IIRC.

So come January, I'll be able to go out and enjoy a 30th anniversary trip on a Dart

 

[RustySpoons]

Aside from ex-Devon P701 BTA, are there any ALX200 B6LEs around anymore or is it the sole survivor? I don't think that chassis/bodywork combination was particularly well liked...

 

[Eyersey468]

We had a single Volvo B6 that had been bought as a seed vehicle in about 1994. It wasn't a bad bus apart from being so gutless.

 

[RustySpoons]

Blazefield seemed to be quite fond of the B6, having quite a few Alexander Dash bodied ones at Keighley and Harrogate in the mid-90s, plus the inherited B6LEs from Stagecoach in Lancashire and then a batch of B6BLEs for Harrogate in 2000ish.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

When I lived in Grove and Wantage from the 1990's (I'm 26) I always loved it when one of the ALX200-bodied Volvo B6LE's (or B6BLE's) turned up on an X31 or 31 to / from Wantage, Grove, Abingdon (31) and Oxford (X31). I was always disappointed when Mum and I caught one of the step-entrance Plaxton Pointer-bodied Darts to / from Wantage and Didcot. Only once we had a Volvo / ALX200 on the then 32's.

I particularly enjoyed sitting in the seat near the back on the left hand side.

A trip down memory lane happend in around spring 2010 when I decided to catch one on Stagecoach Oxford's route 16 from Castle Street to the first stop on Donnington Bridge Road (Abingdon Road end). Not once was there a smell of burning engine oil like on an R-reg Dart I rode on a 10 to Headington via Cowley.

It's crazy how the Dart, not suitable for country routes, somehow proved more reliable than the Volvo B6 model (LE and BLE included).

The old step-entrance Volvo B10M's clearly were a giant success for Stagecoach (apart from the low-floor)!

 

[buslad1988]

Eastern Counties Ipswich garage had quite a collection of Volvo B6’s. 10 ex Mainline (although brand new) M5–-ANG examples being the first which were purchased when Mainline pulled out of starting up in the town and EC ran them on their own town services. These lasted reliably through to late 2000’s on country work although required a re-fuel during the day.

EC themselves though were ordering Darts for Superoute 66 at the time so had quite an influx of buses at the time which from the outside looked virtually the same with Plaxton bodywork.

A number of ex Yorkshire Rider L10-PWR and Glasgow Alexander Dash examples also got transferred in and used heavily on country routes. Perfect mid-size nippy replacements for VR’s.

Although FEC stuck with Scania for the later new Wright Floline orders instead of Volvo B10BLE’s.

 

[plarailfan]

Thinking back to 2000/2001, I worked at Yorkshire Travel in Dewsbury and we had a few, M and N reg, Volvo B6's, with the Alexander Dash bodies.
These were pretty reliable, but one thing I remember well, was that there were some upright metal struts at the rear of the engine bay and they were clearly under a lot of stress out on the road, as they used to shear on a regular basis - the garage lads regularly had to weld them up again and the story was, they had been rushed out of the development stage and into production, rather too quickly, in order to compete with sales of the Dennis Dart.
Another problem we had with the B6's, was that the bottom corners of the windscreen used to turn white, like they had been painted and that turned out to be caused by stress in the bodywork as well. Windscreen glass, was sometimes changed two or three times in just two years !

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Stagecoach Perth had a minor love affair with the B6LE before heading off into the world of ALX200 MANs and Darts.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Was there any particular difference between the B6LE and B6BLE models? The only thing I can possibly think of is emissions regulations.

 

[borage]

Was there any particular difference between the B6LE and B6BLE models? The only thing I can possibly think of is emissions regulations.

Same engine, but a bigger low floor area, improved suspension, and some other design changes according to the press release from 1998: https://web.archive.org/web/1999091...presscenter/oldPress/showArchived.asp?id=1953