Dartmoor Railway stock for sale

tnxrail

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Brought to my attention from Preserved Thumpers group on facebook mix of stock from Dartmoor Railway seems for sale. Thought may be of some interest here:
 
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fgwrich

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I can see most of those Mk2's going for scrap to be honest. They were in a frankly appalling state when they were in storage in Yeovil a few years ago, and while the Dartmoor Railway did a good good of tidying them up, being largely ex Virgin and without power to their insides, cant be in a good state behind the less public facing bits.

It's a shame to see how careworn some of the repainted stock looks too - particularly the former CEP Vehicles. I hope they find further preservation along with the BIG buffet.
 

EbbwJunction1

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I'd like the Wickham Trolley Trailer No. 1 ... I'd see if one of the heritage lines would let me use it as my personal vehicle!
 

EbbwJunction1

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I wonder what the Wickham Trailer would look like in Chocolate and Cream .... or Brunswick Green?!!
 

paul1609

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I can see most of those Mk2's going for scrap to be honest. They were in a frankly appalling state when they were in storage in Yeovil a few years ago, and while the Dartmoor Railway did a good good of tidying them up, being largely ex Virgin and without power to their insides, cant be in a good state behind the less public facing bits.

It's a shame to see how careworn some of the repainted stock looks too - particularly the former CEP Vehicles. I hope they find further preservation along with the BIG buffet.
Think in the current heritage railway financial situation there's only a few potential bidders for any of the stock tbh.
 

yorksrob

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The thumper's down as in working order, so that must float someone's boat !
 

Peter C

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The Class 411/412 bits interested me - but then again I was looking at them as a "those look nice, I'd like to be able to buy them" (which will never happen) as opposed to a genuine customer! :)

-Peter
 

paul1609

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The thumper's down as in working order, so that must float someone's boat !
they only appeal to a specialist enthusiast market that's pretty tiny to be honest. There far from ideal for the coach party/ families customer which is the majority of the mainstream heritage passengers.
 

B&W

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they only appeal to a specialist enthusiast market that's pretty tiny to be honest. There far from ideal for the coach party/ families customer which is the majority of the mainstream heritage passengers.
Have to say that not our experience. They are not true compartment stock but have large semi open saloons apart from the 1st class compartments. Our Midweek passengers seem quite happy and understanding of the economics of midweek trains on preserved railways and a lot say they will return to try our steam/dining trains. I have even carried a couple of wedding parties over the years who got the red carpet treatment and they were very happy as it was a totally different form of wedding transport. Depends I suppose if the railway feels the effort for a smaller overall return midweek is worth it.

The attraction for the railway is like any Multiple Unit in simplistic terms a turn up start up and go train for less than £50 a day for fuel over 50/60 miles of running with minimal staff. The biggest downside in terms of maintenance time is doors/locks etc and of course you need an appreciation of EE Southern Region equipment and EP braking although they are far far simpler than a 73.
Getting back to the ones up for sale, anybody buying them would need deep pockets I suspect.
 

mike57

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they only appeal to a specialist enthusiast market that's pretty tiny to be honest. There far from ideal for the coach party/ families customer which is the majority of the mainstream heritage passengers.
From what I can remember the 205's were non gangwayed in their days on the Uckfield branch when I used them in the 70's, would this make them less attractive for heritage operations as well.
 

yorksrob

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From what I can remember the 205's were non gangwayed in their days on the Uckfield branch when I used them in the 70's, would this make them less attractive for heritage operations as well.

Might do to an extent, but I know a few heritage railways that use non-gangwayed stock. K&WVR springs to mind.
 

30907

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Might do to an extent, but I know a few heritage railways that use non-gangwayed stock. K&WVR springs to mind.
Indeed - it has been a boon during Covid. In normal times the disadvantage is that onboard sales and buffet access are impossible - but if you are running a DMU midweek a buffet might not do much business anywaya.

But a semi-saloon layout like a non-gangwayed 3H/3D is quite good for tour groups etc., and over a longer journey onboard sales can be managed.
 

A0wen

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From what I can remember the 205's were non gangwayed in their days on the Uckfield branch when I used them in the 70's, would this make them less attractive for heritage operations as well.

Not an insurmountable problem for a line with a competent engineering department to address though. And whilst it would upset the rivet counters sacrificing a bit of originality, it would make them a more practical proposition.
 

yorksrob

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Indeed - it has been a boon during Covid. In normal times the disadvantage is that onboard sales and buffet access are impossible - but if you are running a DMU midweek a buffet might not do much business anywaya.

But a semi-saloon layout like a non-gangwayed 3H/3D is quite good for tour groups etc., and over a longer journey onboard sales can be managed.

Indeed. Personally, I think the layout adds a bity of authenticity to the experience. Bearing in mind, the average punter is going to spend more time sat in the carriage staring out of the window, than outside looking at the train.
 

paul1609

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Might do to an extent, but I know a few heritage railways that use non-gangwayed stock. K&WVR springs to mind.
We (K&ESR) have vintage coaches that are compartmental stock. Post covid thats been an advantage because of the ability to sell a whole compartment. We havent run any dmu trains since the first lockdown because of the difficulty of carrying out social distancing and the lack of sufficient market for them when you have prebooking restrictions in place
 

yorksrob

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We (K&ESR) have vintage coaches that are compartmental stock. Post covid thats been an advantage because of the ability to sell a whole compartment. We havent run any dmu trains since the first lockdown because of the difficulty of carrying out social distancing and the lack of sufficient market for them when you have prebooking restrictions in place

I've seen one of your 1st gen DMU's, which looks very nice ! They're rather more open plan than a thumper though.
 

mike57

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Not an insurmountable problem for a line with a competent engineering department to address though. And whilst it would upset the rivet counters sacrificing a bit of originality, it would make them a more practical proposition.
Someone with more knowledge can probably add the detail that 45 years of brain rot have fogged, but didnt a few of them have gangways, apart from the Hastings trains. I used to travel by train occasionally in Kent and East Sussex, but at the time in my late teens-early 20s I would have been concerned about toilet availability, as my use of the train was usually linked with the consumption of beer... I know with the Uckfield ones you had to get in right carriage, but when I had been down to see my mates near Crowborough I had the recognition of toilet carriage well honed. Other journeys are more hazy.
 

yorksrob

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Someone with more knowledge can probably add the detail that 45 years of brain rot have fogged, but didnt a few of them have gangways, apart from the Hastings trains. I used to travel by train occasionally in Kent and East Sussex, but at the time in my late teens-early 20s I would have been concerned about toilet availability, as my use of the train was usually linked with the consumption of beer... I know with the Uckfield ones you had to get in right carriage, but when I had been down to see my mates near Crowborough I had the recognition of toilet carriage well honed. Other journeys are more hazy.

The special refurbished 205 had gangways, as did the 3 207's rebuilt for the Marshlink in the early 1990's.
 

Bessie

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The only gangwayed class 205 I recall growing up in Sussex was the unit I called sticks 1111 but I do defer to others who have better/more recent knowledge
 

yorksrob

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It was indeed unit 1111 (205.101) which from memory, is/was operational on the Epping-Ongar Railway

Didn't some '207s with the Cep trailer car get gangways?

Yes, they were the Marshlink ones (3 of them I think).

They were shortened to two carriages and had the vestibules put in as a cost saving measure a couple of years before the CEP trailers were put in. This was done to make them ready for the through Ashford -Brighton service.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Yes, they were the Marshlink ones (3 of them I think).

They were shortened to two carriages and had the vestibules put in as a cost saving measure a couple of years before the CEP trailers were put in. This was done to make them ready for the through Ashford -Brighton service.
207 101 ( ex-1304 then 207 004 )
207 102 ( ex-1305 then 207 005 )
207 103 ( ex-1302 then 207 002 )
 

bramling

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Indeed. Personally, I think the layout adds a bity of authenticity to the experience. Bearing in mind, the average punter is going to spend more time sat in the carriage staring out of the window, than outside looking at the train.

I’d imagine one issue with running a 205 is the lack of access to the toilet for all but one vehicle. This would certainly be a problem for some of the longer lines.

Apart from that I can’t see why they shouldn’t have at least some popularity.
 

yorksrob

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I’d imagine one issue with running a 205 is the lack of access to the toilet for all but one vehicle. This would certainly be a problem for some of the longer lines.

Apart from that I can’t see why they shouldn’t have at least some popularity.

Yes, that would be an issue on some of the longer lines.

I have to admit that were they still in service on lines such as the Marshlink today, I would probably have to choose my carriage more carefully than in my youth !
 

bramling

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Yes, that would be an issue on some of the longer lines.

I have to admit that were they still in service on lines such as the Marshlink today, I would probably have to choose my carriage more carefully than in my youth !

It’s always good to use the “lock-ups” on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland railways. It’s quite common to get a noisy family get in, then a few minutes before departure realise there’s no toilet, and they get out and move elsewhere!

I have, however, made the mistake of drinking a bottle of water or two before departure, and regretting it later in the journey, especially on the WH!
 

yorksrob

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It’s always good to use the “lock-ups” on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland railways. It’s quite common to get a noisy family get in, then a few minutes before departure realise there’s no toilet, and they get out and move elsewhere!

I have, however, made the mistake of drinking a bottle of water or two before departure, and regretting it later in the journey, especially on the WH!

Yes, at least on the Marshlink you wouldn't have to wait long to nip off and on to the toilet carriage at the next station. Same theory with the HAP's as well.
 

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