Daughter used morning ticket and was caught

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Paul1, 27 Mar 2017.

  1. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Hi, I'm writing this on behalf of my daughters situation. She ever so stupidly showed her morning ticket that she had bought when she was coming home at the barriers at Bradford train station. She proceeded to show the same ticket to the conductor on the train. She thought she had got away with it until a few men at the exit of the Rochdale station were checking tickets. The man asked her for her ticket she once again ever so stupidly decided to lie and say that she had left it on the train. The man took down all her details and she had told him that she bought the ticket from the station. He told her that she should be expecting a letter soon and she should sign it.

    Now I am confused on what should she do.

    Should she write to northern rail and explain the truth and ask them for forgiveness and a out of court settlement fee of £80 and the train travel charges.

    Or should she wait for the letter to arrive and hope for the best. I'm worried that they realise she is lying and the matter becomes even more greater than it already is as they can decide to check CCTV cameras to see if she had bought the ticket or not.

    She's only in her first year of university so I am hoping it doesn't result in a criminal offence as it would affect her future job prospectus.

    In no way shape or form am I saying what she did was correct, she has realised what she has done and is extremely sorry for her actions.

    Any advice or suggestions on wether she should write an apology letter to them before her letter arrives or not would be extremely helpful!

    Thank you so much!
     
  2. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    How old is your daughter?
     
  3. Tim R-T-C

    Tim R-T-C Established Member

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    Is your daughter buying single tickets? On the Rochdale to Bradford route two singles are nearly twice as expensive as buying a return ticket.

    Just going forwards, buying returns could make a big saving and avoid having to queue at Interchange to buy a second ticket in the evening.
     
  4. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Is your daughter the same person who was on here yesterday with a similar (but not identical) story?

    Or am I hallucinating?
     
  5. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    This one?

    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=144248

    I'm assuming so, considering we have gone straight to the £80 fee in the very first post. And if it is the same, some stories need to be straightened out!
     
  6. Martin66

    Martin66 Member

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  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I doubt it. The OP of the earlier thread threw their ticket away, and the later one forgot to pay for their evening journey.

    It's all happening between Bradford and Rochdale of late.
     
    Last edited: 27 Mar 2017
  8. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Indeed, could be entirely different, however.....

    This area seems to be a hotbed.
     
  9. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    She's 19

    The single ticket she bought a few days before so I think it worked out to be cheaper


    I'm not 100% sure however she did tell me she's asked a few people on what they say so it may have been



    I think it may have been my daughter who "forgot" to buy the ticket. She's came fully clean to me now I think she may have read a few people share their experience and consequences which opened her eyes to how big the matter is
     
  10. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Okay, so old enough that she needs to take full responsibility. As others have suggested, Northern Rail are less likely to prosecute than some other train operating companies (TOCs). Their normal way of dealing with first-time offenders is by a fixed penalty of £80 plus the outstanding fare.

    You cannot request this though, and I suspect that doing so will make it less rather than more likely that they'll proceed in this manner. When your daughter receives the inevitable letter she needs to write back to them expressing remorse for having broken the rules, saying that she won't do it again and wishes to resolve the matter as quickly as possible.

    I'd suggest that she doesn't use the 'I forgot' excuse as the story (while it may be true) sounds unlikely, at least as she's explained it.
     
  11. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Thank you so much for your suggestion, I've noted them down! So do you recommend waiting till the letter arrives rather than her writing a letter to them and pleading guilty?
     
  12. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    People on here are very knowledgeable and very helpful to people who find themselves in difficulties if they are given full and accurate facts.

    Their inclination and ability to assist is impaired when they're given an incomplete and misleading version of events.
     
  13. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    You might want to delete this post. It reads like an admission of intent to avoid the fare.
     
  14. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Let's be generous and say that 'got away with it' means 'her initial lie hadn't spiralled out of control', rather than indicating intent to defraud.
     
  15. Master29

    Master29 Member

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    I agree. If we go down that path then we should delete many more posts... Whether or not it`s true at least there`s a chance of a lesson learnt.
     
  16. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    Those are two arguably contradictory bits of advice about how to post on here.
     
  17. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Hi, I tried to continue posting on my previous thread which was about my daughter who showed her morning ticket in the afternoon but the thread had been closed and I can't seem to post on it.

    Continuing on from that today she revieved her initial contact letter from northern rail. I just want some advice on what she should reply with in her letter as I don't want her to be taken to court as she's only 19 and being taken to court would have a massive impact on her degree as she would be kicked out of her university. She has realised the extent of her mistake and wants to make things right without being taken to court.

    On the letter it states "please complete the bottom section of this letter providing proof of ticket and if you wish to make any comments please do so on the reverse. Only written mitigation will be accepted".

    As for proof of ticket will this be her morning ticket that she showed, as it was in her phone should she screenshot it and print it out and attached it to the letter?

    Also it states "only written mitigation will be accepted" can I please ask what this is?

    Any advice and suggestions would be very helpful! Thank you
     
  18. mazza887

    mazza887 Member

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    Hi,

    I recently was able to settle a dispute out of court with Northern by sending them a letter of apology. You can read my letter here it is the 8th post down:

    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143099

    Where they say only written mitigation will be accepted - what they mean is that they will only accept an explanation in writing, not by telephone.

    I'm guessing the proof of ticket will be because at the barriers she claimed she bought a ticket and then lost it on the train, they are asking for her to prove she did indeed buy that ticket. Obviously as that was a lie you are unable to send proof of purchase.
     
  19. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Thank you so much for your help. Much appreciated!
     
  20. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    If anyone is able to look and analyse my daughters draft letter I would be incredibly grateful, please let me know and I would private messafe it you if possible?

    Thank you
     
  21. Chris999999

    Chris999999 Member

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    You exagerate here. No university will expel a student for travelling on a train without a ticket. This will undoubtedly cost her (or you?) money but she isn't going to be sent to prison.
     
  22. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I strongly advise you to pass on to her the importance of writing honestly, briefly, and explaining what she has learned from the incident.

    The letter needn't go into details of her circumstances on the day - because the facts appear to me that she has already evidenced a criminal offence. What she can do is say a few words (i.e. no more than 10) explaining her income.

    If she does, then we might see a letter which contains a frank and unqualified admission of stupidity in seeking to take fraudulent advantage of the Railway Company, a clarification of the lesson that has been learned, and an explanation of how her future behaviour will be modified by that learning.

    It really should be in her own words, though.

    An administrative settlement for a first offence is extremely common, which keeps the matter away from the Court system.

    And even if that does not succeed, perhaps because there is additional evidence which we are unaware of, then Chris99999 is absolutely correct to confirm that a Conviction for Fare Evasion is not going to have any impact on a University education.
     
  23. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Maybe not for university for the course shes currently doing, but after she would like to do a PGCE in teaching which is where the criminal record may become a barrier
     
  24. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Yes definitely, she is the one who wrote the letter.

    Thank you for your advice, much appreciated
     
  25. AnkleBoots

    AnkleBoots Member

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    It seems to me that she told them she left her ticket on the train and they don't know any more than that.

    Why then be honest about the undetected fare evasion events from earlier in the day?
     
  26. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    In the OP of this thread yes, but as outlined earlier, there appear to be other threads created by the daughter herself which tell different tales.

    In truth, we don't know that is all she told them or that is all they know.
     
  27. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Because I feel as though if she continued her lie she would have been caught as they may check CCTV to see if she actually bought the ticket at the station or not, so I would rather her tell the truth than to lie even more than she already has and get herself in even more trouble
     
  28. Paul1

    Paul1 Member

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    Yes, that is true, all she has told them is that she left the ticket on the train
     
  29. AnkleBoots

    AnkleBoots Member

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    Is it possible to word the response to them in such a way that apologises for not having been able to produce a ticket, yet neither continues any lies nor incriminates her further?
     
  30. AnkleBoots

    AnkleBoots Member

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    As I understand it, the "morning ticket" was an Advance ticket in the wrong direction for the wrong time, so I am pretty sure that sending them it would not be a good idea.
     

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