Stephen Lee
On Moderation
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2019
- Messages
- 675
No one have ideas when it will start service, it's a mystery due to several delays.........
You can blame Skoda as much as you like, but whoever went for this at DB needs shooting - it's entirely predictable. ČD's equivalent Class 380 locos are still troublesome and unreliable, which is why ČD have not only bought two secondhand Siemens ES64U4 locos from RTS in Austria but also leased 10 Vectrons for services into Germany that the 380s were intended for.No one have ideas when it will start service, it's a mystery due to several delays.........
Were Vectrons even available to order at the time? Seem to remember this order was placed a number or years ago.I must admit that I'm not entirely impressed by the look of the new stock: Maybe that's because I really enjoy using the old stuff plying the route at the moment though as it's really quite comfortable!
I can't say I've had many issues with the ČD equivalents but the last one I used seemed to have some serious electrical supply issues as the carriages were in darkness for a good half hour. I'm personally surprised DB didn't just go for Vectrons instead.
Could be worse though, they could have ordered some regional versions of the IC2 stock which have had absolutely diabolical reliability when I've used them. One complete failure and two technical faults out of four journeys.
Endlessly delayedThanks for the link. As I read the article (and from other German sources) the problem seems to be primarily with the trainsets and (inevitably?) the software, rather than the class 102 locos.
You can blame Skoda as much as you like, but whoever went for this at DB needs shooting - it's entirely predictable. ČD's equivalent Class 380 locos are still troublesome and unreliable, which is why ČD have not only bought two secondhand Siemens ES64U4 locos from RTS in Austria but also leased 10 Vectrons for services into Germany that the 380s were intended for.
The short-term solution ought to be to refurbish the existing stock, and if DB Fernverkehr can't continue to provide the locos, then of course DB Regio already has some 230km/h locos that could do the job. Longer term perhaps they should look at refurbished ICE-2 sets when they are displaced.
I have heard a rumour that DB are considering cancelling the entire order with Skoda.
At least the Danes didn't make the same mistake with their tender for new electric locos. Despite a requirement for proven locos, Skoda bid: the order went to Siemens.
Begs the question which will be ready first, these trains or Berlin Brandenburg airport?!!
The first production Vectrons were delivered in late 2012. Even if they weren’t available when ordered, Siemens would have had the ES64U4 as a current catalogue type so could have built those instead. Given that Siemens is “local manufacture” in München, the decision to go with Skoda is even more bizarre.Were Vectrons even available to order at the time? Seem to remember this order was placed a number or years ago.
Indeed, that would be a practical option. DB seems to be infected with what Roger Ford called “Old Railway Procurement Disorder” where the desire for something new yet unproven outweighs the proven in-service offering. I’ll bet that the new Talgo stuff DB Fernverkehr has on order (including locos/power cars) will turn out to be a similar fiasco.Why didn't they just order some RailJets? 230kmh and a little more capacity than the current ex-IC sets. I would have had six second class coaches with a little luggage space at each end (take out one row of seats) and the seventh carriage nearest the loco half cafe bar and half first class. The current sets only have a very minimal first class (comfy as it is though!)
Indeed, that would be a practical option. DB seems to be infected with what Roger Ford called “Old Railway Procurement Disorder” where the desire for something new yet unproven outweighs the proven in-service offering. I’ll bet that the new Talgo stuff DB Fernverkehr has on order (including locos/power cars) will turn out to be a similar fiasco.
Like any other stock, RailJet is a coach design and you can put in it what you want in terms of interior. The key point is it is a proven 230km/h coach design - which is what is required.A RailJet might not sit well with the idea of Regional tickets being valid. The RJ is a very classy product. It was launched in 2008 (December timetable change I think, so only very back end of the year) but even had it only been launched 2 or 3 years ago it wouldn't have looked outdated in the slightest. The Skoda product looks quite cheap in comparison, not so much a criticism though as much as an observation.
Why didn't they just order some RailJets? 230kmh and a little more capacity than the current ex-IC sets...
It's not the same at all. If DB want alternatives they have Siemens and Bombardier. Going to Skoda was frankly completely bonkers and the fiasco that has followed was totally predictable.Companies like DB must maintain a sensible multivendor purchasing strategy, otherwise they won't keep good prices. Ordering from Skoda was probably a message to Siemens, "keep your prices reasonable otherwise we will purchase elsewhere"...
US railways in the 70ies kept purchasing locos from GE even knowing that their products were notoriously inferior to those from GM, just to ensure GE would stay in business, otherwise they would end up purchasing from a monopoly, never a good thing. Most probably we have something similar here.
the same **** DB did with the ECx, they bought a small series of intercity trains by Talgo, with a loco, that doesnt even exist know...Going to Skoda was frankly completely bonkers and the fiasco that has followed was totally predictable.
Given that one of the first uses is planned to be the Berlin-Amsterdam service with the need for acceptance under different signalling and electrification systems, I'm afraid I have little confidence.Talgo do at least have experience producing rolling stock for the German market. RZD didn't seem to have major problems authorising their Talgo sets for Germany.
It is a great product (same standard seats as FGW put in the HSTs) but I've taken the ten minute trip on the RJ from Bruck/Mur to Leoben and back on an €4.70 ticket interavailable with not only IC and RE but also S-bahn and the local bus!A RailJet might not sit well with the idea of Regional tickets being valid. The RJ is a very classy product. It was launched in 2008 (December timetable change I think, so only very back end of the year) but even had it only been launched 2 or 3 years ago it wouldn't have looked outdated in the slightest. The Skoda product looks quite cheap in comparison, not so much a criticism though as much as an observation.
If DB want alternatives they have Siemens and Bombardier. Going to Skoda was frankly completely bonkers and the fiasco that has followed was totally predictable.
They needed a train that can fit a certain capacity in a limited platform length. (Apparently they have to lock out some coaches for part of the journey nowadays when extending the train for peak hours.) That requires a double deck.Why didn't they just order some RailJets? 230kmh and a little more capacity than the current ex-IC sets. I would have had six second class coaches with a little luggage space at each end (take out one row of seats) and the seventh carriage nearest the loco half cafe bar and half first class. The current sets only have a very minimal first class (comfy as it is though!)
If they need the double deckers for capacity then the only option is Stadler's KISS double deck as they are 200km/h capable. Bombardier don't have anything that meets the requirement.They needed a train that can fit a certain capacity in a limited platform length. (Apparently they have to lock out some coaches for part of the journey nowadays when extending the train for peak hours.) That requires a double deck.
In hindsight might have been better to ask Bombardier to deliver a 200km/h version of the IC2 (that would've ended up being delayed though), or similar with a Stadler Dosto (which they ended up buying second hand for other routes anyway).
Oh please no. Awful things, one on delivery had an accident and front coach completely destroyed. Wouldn't go on one of those at 100km/h let alone 200km/h.If they need the double deckers for capacity then the only option is Stadler's KISS double deck as they are 200km/h capable. Bombardier don't have anything that meets the requirement.
If they need the double deckers for capacity then the only option is Stadler's KISS double deck as they are 200km/h capable. Bombardier don't have anything that meets the requirement.
200m long and 200km/h capableBombardier TWINDEXX Swiss Express — Wikipédia
fr.wikipedia.org