DB running on HS1

[Relativenewbie]

Any ideas when this is going to start? The wikipedia page (best source I can get on this I'm afraid) says "from 2013 or a little earlier in time for the 2012 Olympics". Anyone got any hunches on a more precise date?

 

[kylemore]

The sooner the better! Why it should take 2 years to organise running already existing proven trains over already existing infrastructure god alone knows. The Chinese can have the idea of building a new HS line, plan it, build it, and the trains, in less time!
It must have something to do with the French being awkward as usual.

 

[gordonthemoron]

also, Siemens have only just completed the first of the new ICE trains which will be used

 

[starrymarkb]

Got to wait until the French agree to distributed traction to run through the tunnel.
Dont think they have agreed to it yet.

Plus, of course it will be quicker in China. They have less safety regulations and less red tape than we do. One of the reasons everything is so much cheaper.

I think Safety Regulations are a good thing though?

 

[Waddon]

The Chinese can have the idea of building a new HS line, plan it, build it, and the trains, in less time!.

Yes, but thats because little details like individual rights, planning permission and the right to object aren't as important in China...

If the Chiltern Hills were in China, HS2 would already have been built in a huge concrete trench thorugh the middle of them, no matter what historic land marks or property were in the way, no one would have any compensation and those who dared to complain would have been thoroughly 're-educated' by now... I'd rather stick with our system if you don't mind

 

[jon0844]

I've been to China and it isn't quite like that! However, I agree that it would have been built quicker. However, you don't need to look that far over as the same would probably be true in France too.

 

[kylemore]

Yes, but thats because little details like individual rights, planning permission and the right to object aren't as important in China...

If the Chiltern Hills were in China, HS2 would already have been built in a huge concrete trench thorugh the middle of them, no matter what historic land marks or property were in the way, no one would have any compensation and those who dared to complain would have been thoroughly 're-educated' by now... I'd rather stick with our system if you don't mind

OK something in between then that allows us to build a HS network in say 10 years not 30! Mind you sometimes the end justifies the means, it might be worth a few retired stockbrokers in the Gulag!

 

[TGV]

It might also be worth thinking about the International aspect. In China, they only have themselves to satisfy. In this case, you have Germany, France and the UK at the least - probably Belgium involved. Oh and the worlds longest stretch of undersea tunnel.

I love the way some of you water everything down to: "oh why can't we start tomorrow - how hard can it be?". Clearly you've never worked in the railway industry.

 

[kylemore]

It might also be worth thinking about the International aspect. In China, they only have themselves to satisfy. In this case, you have Germany, France and the UK at the least - probably Belgium involved. Oh and the worlds longest stretch of undersea tunnel.

I love the way some of you water everything down to: "oh why can't we start tomorrow - how hard can it be?". Clearly you've never worked in the railway industry.

Yes all experts in what cant be done! Oh for the good old days of Stalin's Russia when either it was done or somebody was facing a firing squad!
Just kidding(ish!)

 

[j0hn0]

Yes all experts in what cant be done! Oh for the good old days of Stalin's Russia when either it was done or somebody was facing a firing squad!
Just kidding(ish!)

What would you prefer?

To be told that you have no say, or to be told that you do have a say and then realise in the end that you don't?

We effectively do the same thing when building railways as China, we build it regardless of what the public thinks, it's just that our culture of "entitlement" means that people get money instead.

Aah, compensation and british greed......

 

[EWS 58038]

The Velare D doesn't have a safety certificate yet. For running the service, it would require one for Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Channel Tunnel and High Speed 1.

How long do you reckon that takes?

Apart from that, staff has to be trained and acostumed to the safety regulations of all countries involved as well.

 

[valedave]

..and they have to isolate the platforms in Köln and Frankfurt.

2012 seems ambitious to me personally.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure that France will be the barrier, and everyone else would be keen to make it happen.

 

[EWS 58038]

I am sure that France will be the barrier, and everyone else would be keen to make it happen.

They will NOT. simply because every operator is allowed to use the infrastructure when they have a safety case. DB does hold a safety case for the French LGV system and all it has to to is extend it's safety case for the Velaro D sets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

..and they have to isolate the platforms in Köln and Frankfurt.

2012 seems ambitious to me personally.

And Amsterdam plus Rotterdam as they do still need two train sets to gain tunnel access.

 

[Striker]

And Amsterdam plus Rotterdam as they do still need two train sets to gain tunnel access.

And create extra secure platforms at Brussels unless they want to reverse.

 

[gordonthemoron]

how secure are the platforms at Lille & Calais?

 

[LexyBoy]

how secure are the platforms at Lille & Calais?

pretty secure- high fences, razor wire, that sort of thing. Similar to Paris. Lille additionally is underground so the only way to the platforms is through passport control. It would take a while to install i'd think, not to mention the space for waiting rooms and security etc...

 

[valedave]

I remember seeing a picture of the Avignon Eurostar bit on here, and it didn't look that secure, but of course that's just for a few seasonal services. There's loads of stuff to do!

There has been no more news about it in the media over here since the announcement.

 

[gordonthemoron]

at Cologne, I wouldn't be surprised if they used Deutz instead of the Hbf

 

[shinkansen1966]

at Cologne, I wouldn't be surprised if they used Deutz instead of the Hbf

Not knowing the track layout too well there, how would DB ICE trains get from Deutz onto the Duren/Aachen/Brussels line ? Would they use the upper level station and run non-stop through Hbf ?

To appease the UK authorities, it would make more sense to use Deutz than Hbf. Though Hbf is right in the centre of Cologne. Makes you wonder if DB is asking that immigration checks be carried out on the train between Cologne and Brussels.

You've got to hand it to DB. It must be an uphill struggle dealing with the Channel Tunnel and UK border authorities. What a headache.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Would they use the upper level station and run non-stop through Hbf ?

The existing ICE trains from Frankfurt to Brussels go through Deutz upper station and then stop at Hbf, so I'd expect what you suggest

 

[blackfive460]

Makes you wonder if DB is asking that immigration checks be carried out on the train between Cologne and Brussels.

I suspect it isn't passport and immigration that will be the problem; you still need somewhere secure to do the baggage checks and I doubt there's any way that could be done on train.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I suspect it isn't passport and immigration that will be the problem; you still need somewhere secure to do the baggage checks and I doubt there's any way that could be done on train.

well what happens with Avignon and the ski train?

 

[blackfive460]

well what happens with Avignon and the ski train?

No idea, never used it but I do note that recommended check in is 1 hour rather than 30 minutes so I suppose there is some temporary arrangement made to do baggage checks off train which wouldn't be acceptable for a regular service from Köln or Amsterdam.

 

[j0hn0]

are there 2 disused platforms at Deutz upper?

re-engineering this part of the station would seem like the only option to me. I wouldn't like to have to go back over the bridge on an s-bahn train with a suitcase to get a connection though.

I have no idea how they could add that sort of capacity at hbf

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't know if there are any disused platforms at Deutz upper, however there does seem to be more space than at Hbf

 

[WhiteJoker]

For the Amsterdam service you could use Amsterdam Zuid. This station will be completely redeveloped for international trains in the near future.

 

[brianthegiant]

well what happens with Avignon and the ski train?

There is a very compact baggage check area with 1 xray machine in what is probably a refurbished goods room at Moutiers, I think there is similar at the other calling points except 1 which is to alight only not used for return trip. Passports done by travelling UK borders staff whilst in southern France.
Must be costly to send borders staff to south of france every weekend. But note that this is only done on the return trip, ticket holders will have shown tickets & passports before boarding to eurostar staff and ticket holders will generally have been through passports at st pancras on the outbound journey. In addition getting a costly 7 hour train from avignon/alps wont be a preferred option for illegal migrants. So in general I suspect there is a low risk of needing to apprehend any passport irregularities.
I suspect borders will take a different view for regular Koln-StP. My guess is that the approach will be: If you're going to install X-Ray for the baggage you may as well install a passport booth nearby as part of the work programme.
All complete speculation of course...

 

[gordonthemoron]

For the Amsterdam service you could use Amsterdam Zuid. This station will be completely redeveloped for international trains in the near future.

especially as Centraal has no space to expand

 

[stut]

especially as Centraal has no space to expand

...and the Noord-Zuid Lijn will be complete by then, hopefully.

I tend to prefer using Zuid to Centraal most of the time, anyway - the connections to the 5 tram and 51 sneltram (as well as the decent bike place under the station) mean it's easy to get where you want, and it's only 5 minutes from Schiphol vs the 20 it takes to CS.