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Debate regarding whether products sold in Ireland have to be priced in Euros
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If the departure country for the outbound journey is Ireland then Irish law applies not UK law. The British pound is not legal tender in Ireland so the sale has to be priced in Euros but they can offer the option of purchasing in an alternative currency at an advertised exchange rate.
Does it depend on the departure country or the country of sale?
paddington
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I know nothing of Irish law but since much of it is derived from British law, I would have thought the definition of legal tender in Ireland mirrors that of the UK.
In the UK legal tender refers to banknotes and coins that must be accepted for court-enforced debts, but retailers are free to accept or reject any payment they want. Must UK retailers price products in GBP?
Nope. If I'm selling something in Ireland I can price it however I like. If I don't price it in euro (note that euro is its own plural and an s is not added) then I mightn't sell much of it but I'm not breaking any laws as long as I don't mislead consumers.
Go to the website of any ferry company or airline and try to buy a journey starting in Britain and ending in a foreign country and the price will always be given in pounds, swap the origin and destination around and the price changes to the currency of the departure country. You may be given the option of paying in another currency (like British pounds) but the exchange rate given is unlikely to be better than the one Visa/Mastercard offer for paying in a foreign currency.
However, if you're sold anything on board it'll be in the currency of where the provider is based e.g. Irish Ferries would price everything sold on board in Euro but P&O would price everything in Pounds.
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Not true in all cases (see attached image).
Stenaline price everything in both Euro and Sterling.
(Attached image shows Rosslare to Fishguard booking priced in Sterling on Stenaline website.)
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You quoted the response to the FAQ of "Does the Central Bank of Ireland have a role in persuading shops or retail outlets to accept high denomination banknotes?"
To me that reads as they cannot force retailers to accept cash payment or specific denominations of bank notes opposed to saying retailers can choose what currency they sell products in, which is what you seem to be implying it means.
They seem to be an exception
Stena Line said:
They also have a long list of different registered companies in various countries in their T&Cs so maybe they have found a loophole which other providers haven't/don't bother with.
If they have something in place on their website to prevent pound rates being quoted for bookings not made from a UK computer there may be some people who wrongly aren't allowed to book in pounds due to the way IP addresses work.
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philthetube
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This refers to paying a debt, you cannot for example pay off money owed with 50.000 pennies.
In the case talked about their is no debt as you owe nothing until you have the goods and the supplier can decide whether to accept or reject any form of payment, including turnips.
Moderator's note: split from bank refuses chargeback because Virgin Trains let me down
A single ferry or a return ferry journey starting in Ireland has to be priced in Euros - if it's not true then they are breaking the law.
Irish Ferries might give a price of 30 Euros and the CIV rail ticket price might be £15. The trainline (as agent for Virgin) might convert 30 Euros to £26 and then offer you a price of £41. However, if the exchange rate changes you might find the price goes down to £40 or goes up to £42 even if no tickets are sold for that date.
A single ferry or a return ferry journey starting in Ireland has to be priced in Euros - if it's not true then they are breaking the law.
Irish Ferries might give a price of 30 Euros and the CIV rail ticket price might be £15. The trainline (as agent for Virgin) might convert 30 Euros to £26 and then offer you a price of £41. However, if the exchange rate changes you might find the price goes down to £40 or goes up to £42 even if no tickets are sold for that date.
OK, that may be the practice of these companies, but the question is whether they do this because they're legally obliged to or whether they think they'll sell more.
There is no thing as British law. In the realm of legal tender, Scottish and English law don't even mirror. As others have said, legal tender is a narrow technical definition relating to the settlement of debt and so it's irrelevant here. Strictly speaking, for example, Scottish bank notes aren't legal tender in Scotland.
Irish law is cascaded from EU law. As the reference in IE is to euro notes being legal tender, I'd expect zero mirroring from English law but either a mirror from an EU directive/treaty or a direct application of an EU regulation.
And this still doesn't include a reference to any actual legislation? It seems rather fuzzy.
My understanding of legal tender is that it's - given the age of the legislation - only refers to physical transfer of payment - basically notes and coins. So it's just not relevant (especially once you appreciate it's only about the settlement of debt, not about purchases).
But while legal tender is a huge red herring, there still might be something somewhere. It would need a bit more research. When the euro came in, there was legislation that mandated prices must be provided in euro - it's probably that kicking in still. But payments can still be accepted in other currencies e.g. when you pay by credit card in the EU/CH you'll often be asked whether you want to pay in your currency or the local currency.
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Another Irish provider, good old Ryanair, advertise flights between eurozone cities in EUR but when personal details are put in they then change it to GBP.
I've used Ryanair between Athens and chania several times due to lack of direct uk to chania flights in winter.
I've used Ryanair between Athens and chania several times due to lack of direct uk to chania flights in winter.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
In Ireland,
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...cing/price_display_of_goods_and_services.html
It is unlikely that those regulations apply when advertising the price outside of Ireland.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...cing/price_display_of_goods_and_services.html
It is unlikely that those regulations apply when advertising the price outside of Ireland.
But nowhere does it say they mustn't display it in other currencies as well as the euro.
How much did they charge you for the privilege? Due to flight times I one had to use Jet2 to return to the UK when I hadn't used them for the outbound flight and it defaulted to Euro but gave the option to pay in pounds instead. However, despite charging a fee for credit card bookings it still finished up cheaper to pay on a Mastercard credit card in Euro than in pounds on a Visa debit card.
AlterEgo
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Yes, but still applicable.
The problem is if the price is set in Euro and converted to pounds they normally choose an exchange rate worse than the one offered by Visa or Mastercard.
Yes, AE's post was helpful. Yours hadn't included anything specific before (unless left behind on the other thread). But while it mandates pricing in euro, it doesn't prevent pricing from being displayed in other currencies which was the original point?
Regulations are directly applicable (directives need transposing).
It wasn't the best rate, but because of the very low flight prices in question, once considering the foreign transaction fee imposed by my bank of £1.50 + 0.95% it was cheaper in GBP
If the second para is still including airlines then it is just wrong. Wizzair, for example, do not price their on board products in forint.
If people want to know the exact wording of legislation then the best thing to do is to look for that legislation online, not start directing questions at posters who aren't legal experts. Sometimes the wording of legislation is contained within huge documents so if I'm using the forum on a mobile connection I'm not going to start downloading them to start scanning through for what it says and where it says it.
I said about pricing on board in the currency of the country the provider is from because from my experience that's what happens e.g. Irish Ferries sell on board in Euros. I didn't say there's legislation in place meaning it has to happen where the provider is from a country which has a currency different to that of either the departure or destination country that they have to sell products in some unusual currency.
Flying Snail
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Irish Ferries and Stena sell on board in both and £. You are correct that Stena have £ as their base and convert to with IF doing the opposite but they both accept either.
Stenaline.co.uk prices all bookings in £ regardless of the start location, stenaline.ie prices all booking in .
Cloud Strife
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What tosh. Prices in Ireland can be in GBP or any other currency you wish. For instance, when there were major price differentials between fuel, you'd often see retailers advertising the price in GBP for clients from the North.
How they account for it is also up to them. Irish accountancy law only requires that you keep your books in one currency, and the conversion is made at the end of the reporting period. So if you want to sell tickets in GBP, you can do so, you only need to use the spot exchange rate at the end of the tax reporting period. So if Irish Ferries have supplied 434,343GBP worth of ferry travel to Virgin Trains, then they simply change it into EUR at the end of their financial reporting period and everyone's happy.
For instance, I run a business that routinely deals in USD, GBP, EUR and CHF as well as my home currency, the PLN. I give prices according to the needs of the client - if someone wants to pay me in EUR, it's not a problem, especially as many Polish clients will have foreign currency reserves. I account for it in PLN, but the invoice and payment is in EUR.
How they account for it is also up to them. Irish accountancy law only requires that you keep your books in one currency, and the conversion is made at the end of the reporting period. So if you want to sell tickets in GBP, you can do so, you only need to use the spot exchange rate at the end of the tax reporting period. So if Irish Ferries have supplied 434,343GBP worth of ferry travel to Virgin Trains, then they simply change it into EUR at the end of their financial reporting period and everyone's happy.
For instance, I run a business that routinely deals in USD, GBP, EUR and CHF as well as my home currency, the PLN. I give prices according to the needs of the client - if someone wants to pay me in EUR, it's not a problem, especially as many Polish clients will have foreign currency reserves. I account for it in PLN, but the invoice and payment is in EUR.
It looks like euros is now the preferred English spelling
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euro#English
People were asking about legislation from the person who said it was the law, assuming they had something to back that up. Does that sound unreasonable?
If you're not sure something is the law, perhaps you'd be better not claiming it is and people would then be unlikely to question you about it.
So if you said to someone in a pub "The BBC aren't allowed to make revenue from advertising" would you think it's reasonable for them to say you have to find evidence to prove it as they are unsure whether your claim is correct or not?
I'm aware that airlines have claimed it is the law and I've never seen any evidence to prove that the likes of EasyJet and Jet2 are wrong and after all a business offering international transportation should know more about the laws applicable for international transport than me.
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AlterEgo
Veteran Member
No, because that's not how most pub discussions work, as they move quickly.
On an Internet forum, where all the participants of the slow-moving discussion have the Internet at hand, I don't think it is unreasonable for people, when challenged, to provide some evidence.
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