PermitToTravel
Established Member
But could be done by taking the card to a bank, which isn't a very onerous requirement.
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Debit card declined
- Thread starter dan96
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But could be done by taking the card to a bank, which isn't a very onerous requirement.
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R
RailUK Forums
This assumes that the bank clearly explains the workings of the system.
Or they could just clearly explain the way the system works now (I realise it'll be allowed somewhere deep in the conditions but it can't be that hard to inform customers next time they get their card (or when the status of that card changes).
I had no idea that my bank card may have stopped working on trains when I was changing my bank account - and I do occasionally board at a station where the only ticket is in the ticket office and not accessible at the times I most often board a train there during the week.
Any bank, or just the one the customer banks with. Where I live in Crayford the last bank closed a couple of months ago meaning the nearest branch of any variety is 2-3 miles away. In the sticks you're possibly looking at tens of miles away
DeeGee
Member
Here's one, for those of you that understand this sort of thing.
I have two debit cards. One, which is the joint account card, has a decent buffer which we have saved to it so we can cover major domestic emergencies or appliance breakdowns and the like. I could probably happily buy an significant period of season ticket to commute right now.
The other card is for my account. Most of the balance of my account goes to the joint one, and I spend the rest over the month - it's my pocket money, if you will. There's about 150 quid available there seeing as how I've prepaid a weekend away this weekend.
Neither are online-only.
I understand that there is a floor limit for transactions above which a card must call in for authorisation. Is this fixed by the bank? Can this be varied by measure of the balance of the account?
If I were to be travelling between two unmanned stations, would I be able to buy a season ticket on the train with either of my cards, assuming that a season ticket could cost a few hundred quid? Or would I need to make a special journey to a manned station to do this?
What would happen if the balance on my personal card was lower than my floor limit. Would the transaction approve if I bought a ticket costing less than the floor limit?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First Direct?
Or where, for instance, you opened an account with a branch of the Clydesdale as a student because you were in Scotland and now live in Falmouth and do all your banking online?
I have two debit cards. One, which is the joint account card, has a decent buffer which we have saved to it so we can cover major domestic emergencies or appliance breakdowns and the like. I could probably happily buy an significant period of season ticket to commute right now.
The other card is for my account. Most of the balance of my account goes to the joint one, and I spend the rest over the month - it's my pocket money, if you will. There's about 150 quid available there seeing as how I've prepaid a weekend away this weekend.
Neither are online-only.
I understand that there is a floor limit for transactions above which a card must call in for authorisation. Is this fixed by the bank? Can this be varied by measure of the balance of the account?
If I were to be travelling between two unmanned stations, would I be able to buy a season ticket on the train with either of my cards, assuming that a season ticket could cost a few hundred quid? Or would I need to make a special journey to a manned station to do this?
What would happen if the balance on my personal card was lower than my floor limit. Would the transaction approve if I bought a ticket costing less than the floor limit?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First Direct?
Or where, for instance, you opened an account with a branch of the Clydesdale as a student because you were in Scotland and now live in Falmouth and do all your banking online?
I'm not sure about it all, but on Southern, where i work, you can only buy weekly seasons on the train. If your bank trusts you, you can buy these weeklies for £130 or so, and many do, with no issues.
Many cards for those on difficult credit ratings, payg card have the words electronic use only. Some folks know they dont work on the train, but keep using them. " you have to swipe it". Some folks I've had long conversations about them not working and that they need to buy before they travel, or pay cash. They listen, then a few weeks later are back with the same card.:-x
UPFN are fine, when you have the time to fill one in. On our west coast services where cards being declined are so common, 2-3 mins between stations, just not possible.
There are 2 - 4 different limits that could be in play; the traditional meaning of floor limit is the maximum allowed by the merchant agreement, the card will also have a limit for offline PIN transactions and if contactless the per transaction and cumulative limits. The 1st limit is set by the acquiring bank while the other 3 are set by the cardholders bank.
As for the question of varying them it doesn't generally happen as the whole point of them is what is allowed when the balance cannot be checked.
PermitToTravel
Established Member
In a hypothetical world where banks decide that [variable buffers to guarantee chip and PIN transactions work offline] are a good idea and worth spending money on, I imagine they'd also spend money on provision for people who cannot get to a branch so easily, which could range from reprogramming their ATMs to be able to make these changes all the way to just posting out new cards to people who want such changes. They could also not allow the cardholder to make such a change, and just say it's always £20.
Far more likely is them deciding that, like now, it's £0.
That's the same everywhere in the UK - you can't buy any season larger than a weekly on-train.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
And what happens if you want to do this on a weekend, or you don't live in an urban centre?
As an example, the nearest branch of my bank is a round trip of 38 miles, and my other bank over an hour and a half away!
PermitToTravel
Established Member
Why would you want to have that much involvement with it, or why would the bank give you that much control? It's just a measure that would make fewer small offline transactions decline at the expense of making a few more large online transactions decline.
as an ex-pat that pays for cabs using a credit card, where the cabbie has a 'square reader' on their iPhone/android device - I am completely mystified why it seems so hard for the TOCs to do online auth of credit cards.
heck even if there are areas of patchy coverage and an online check can't complete, a scroat's luck will run out at some point when they are detected in an area of good coverage.
heck even if there are areas of patchy coverage and an online check can't complete, a scroat's luck will run out at some point when they are detected in an area of good coverage.
AFAIAA The vast majority of credit cards will authorise offline anyway. To get a credit card you must have some sort of credit rating so as long as you are within the "floor limit" the transaction will go through (usual caveats apply). Debit cards on the other hand..........
I don't get this point. Are you implying that all transactions should be authorised regardless of coverage? Sounds dodgy to me.
No - that's a bit of a logical stretch. All credit cards will require online authorisation in certain circumstances. Some banks, for some customers, for some lower transaction value, at certain times of the year may not require authorisation or will allow Visa/MasterCard to 'authorise' the transaction without reference to the bank.
More broadly...wow...so much misinformation and confusion in the thread which some have valiantly tried to correct.
DeeGee
Member
Hence this thread:
"Visa, accepted everywhere you see the VISA sign", except on trains for certain customers, or all customers spending above a certain unknown ad-hoc limit, set on a case by case basis by banks.
"All National Rail train companies accept the major cards such as Visa, Visa Delta, MasterCard, Maestro and Amex.", except on trains yadda yadda.
Neither of those statements are factual, then? So, realistically, neither should be made in any advertising.
At least, as we've found, the banks hide the guff about certain cards not working in certain places in the Ts & Cs of the cards - which of course, everyone reads and memorises
I've not yet seen anywhere where the railways have a disclaimer for certain cards or all cards above a certain limit not working. So, really, should any cards be advertised as a "unversally" accepted method of payment?
It requires one sentence to be added to the statement above from National Rail: "If your card-issuer requires authorisation for the transaction then your card cannot be accepted on-board and you will be asked to pay using another method."
Not a lot to ask, is it? And then we, the paying punter, will not be going about so misinformed about what we can and cannot do with our money.
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WillPS
Established Member
Immediately (in fact, 3+ years ago now) there needs to be official recognition of the issue; then they need to sort out acceptance.
Given those parameters I don't think anything said by me or anyone else is particularly disingenuous.
Given those parameters I don't think anything said by me or anyone else is particularly disingenuous.
I think everyone has now had chance to express their opinion on the matter. The case to answer for each side has been expressed thoroughly, and so its appropriate to bring this thread to a close. Please contact me by PM should you feel you have any new material not yet discussed.
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